Saturday, January 31, 2009

Reply by AKI

You quote Hebrew 13:17 but lesser these verses?
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

1Cor 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

It is useless to use Hebrew 13:17 if it is not God's conformed to other God's commandment.

Shall we follow the leaders who commit idolatry?

Does God really want us to obey the leaders than Himself?

I show you Deut 13 to declare the teaching and allowance of teaching to commit idolatry are so serious in God's sight. If you see from these verses, anyone can stone those who committed.

Does God want the church full of the submission to authority but commit to idolatry?

Or He wants His church to be purified and love him whole-heartedly.

My interpretation from His words is so simple.
Matt 22:37-39
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Love God first.

Secondly, You refer to Jdg 21:25.

Do I commit like that? What do I interpret the Words of God unfaithfully?

For me, simply is the best.

From Ps Stephen about PK situation

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Post Re: ลองอ่านความเห็นของ อ.PK จาก London, UK

Thanks for your bible verses, however, it will become riot simply without this scripture
Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

In Judges say : Jdg 21:25 In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as he saw fit.
THANKS TO BE CALM AND PATIENT, DON'T USE ANGER. "Am I the one that you should be angry with?"

*TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE TRULY, we might need to know how to INTERPRETE the Bible properly as well, otherwise, it will be a big mess and we will have our own interpretation.* To make sure you guys will understand I will try to write in Thai for the sake of people who pass by and read. I will write in another window.

Thanks & love,
We are still brothers & sisters right!

Story from Hope London

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Post Re: ลองอ่านความเห็นของ อ.PK จาก London, UK
How long we conform to the regulation human made moreover than the biblical words.

Let me show you.
Matt 15:7-9
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

How we should we deal with who committed the idolatry?
Deut 13:1-5
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

From these words, if this subject happened in Israel. I will be the first one who stone Dr. J and A. Jabb. But we are in non-believer country. So Romans 13:1-7 are still valid and make us cannot stone whom deserve.

And what should we do for those who allows teaching about ability to commit idolatry? Let me show you again.
Deut 13:12-18
12 ¶If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Right, they should be all destroyed with the whole city if applicable.

Thus, what should we do in the real world?

Destroy their credibilities is perfect for my sight.

Do I have no love for those people?

For God's sake, I must do love God and His name more.

Turn back to Ps PK letter. For my opinion, he did less than God's standard for those who committed to idolatry.

If anyone want to object my opinion, show me your biblical words, not any regulation made by men.

PS PK issue Hope London

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Post Re: ลองอ่านความเห็นของ อ.PK จาก London, UK
Dear Ps. Stephen,

Many of us in BBD are fluent in English. You can use English/Thai or whatever languages you are comfortable with to communicate to us your fullest opinion. And I think we understand you.

1. You suspect that Ps.PK's act is against biblical teachings.

Ans: It is not. It's just against regulation within our church. Is the church's regulation is greater than Mosaic Law?

2. The public rebuke is improper.

Ans: Perhaps you didn't read (1 Timothy 5:19-20) Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. (NASB)

By reading the Bible thoroughly, you may understand us that we have already tried our best to show Ps PeN the love of God.

I'm in great pain. My pain is no lesser than Ps PeN's. Please understand me as well, please understand me with the same measure you try to understand Ps PeN.

Please protect us with the same attempt you have tried to protect Ps PeN.

HOWEVER, what you thought that Dr.J has no authority over our church.

It is simply wrong. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Update on Ps PK email


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Post Re: ลองอ่านความเห็นของ อ.PK จาก London, UK

Thanks a lot for your Christmas Greetings with interesting storiesabout Hope Leadership of which I have been observing for over 2 monthsnow.

I would like you to know that I have the same zeal for theKingdom as you have, that's why I have been serving for over 20 yearsas God's servant as well.

I have learnt a lot from many mistakes in my past by stepping down as a pastor during the economical crisis inHatyai

(where you've also lost one unit of condo there and I had tried tofollow up but the company closed down, sorry for that),

now thank Godthat he has called me back to the ministry in Perth, Australia of which I really love this family and I follow Ps.Simon's &Ps.Wilson'sdirection to stand in neutral

during this time and do not overact (although I think I know a lot since I am a Thai, receiving all info.daily from many pastors & friends in Thailand from all parties)

What I am doing now are:

1) Although I know many facts, but the evidences are not with me or Ican't show to all the people I am communicating with, therefore, Iwill not make any statement as a

'Judgmental Sentence' over ourleaders by emailing to all the people whom I can't provide evidence.In people's eyes, it will become only an allegation still.

2) Although I have all the evidences and witnesses, I might need toprovide the said evidence to all people whom I am emailing to them.

3) I don't think I am a Judge in judging our leader's sin or I am theone to expose their sins, even if it istrue.

4) I am seeking the UNITY among all pastors in Oceania first since Iam still under their covering because, they have not sinned in anyway.

5) Since 10 years ago, Dr.J left our movement, I took that he has nodeal with our church anymore since in Bkk we had farewelled him to goto political areas.

I think that we should only deal with Ps.... atthe moment.

My humble suggestion is that: We should all work through our existingor closest leaders to find,

at least, unity in a level to resolve thisissue/crisis which is the greatest ever in our moment calmly and withgood conscience, knowing we are all sinners and no one is perfect

yet.Please don't do this way which is so hostile to our leader, at least,they have been also serving and doing some good things throughout 20years,

if he needs to step down, should we kick him out like a dog? ordo it more gently than this!

'How should we deal with a servant ofGod who haddone wrong in biblical way?'BY THE WAY, this is just an example (real one),

I have received yourresponse on 'HI 5' about 2 times attaching with a PORNOGRAPHY to mybig surprise! it is from Ps. PK Tse (Hope UK)

The Evidence is stillwith me now BUT I ALWAYS THINK THAT THIS IS A BIG MISTAKE, believingon your good side, I never expose to anyone.

However, I still believethat it must be an accident even now but please check it through,otherwise,

you might be sending some other porno to others which isnot me next time.

I'm so sorry to give this kind of big analogy, good sermon from what Ilearn from my Bible Schools here in Australia must give a goodIllustration that really hit!

so that people can truly understand it.Hope this help also.However, I love you with the love of the Lord,

I still confirm tostand in neutral and don't side on anyone neither Ps.... nor the Hope Foundation led by Mrs Rubina who had alsodone a violent thing causes

thousand of souls to be lost at themoment.

(She sent out the allegations not only all leaders but membersand new believers with outsiders Christians and even non-believers)

May the Lord bless you all during this Christmas Season and New Year to come.


Stephen PitavanikHope Perth Christian Church

Ps PK Hope London follow-up letter

*Dear Hope Family,*
Please delete this e-mail if you do not want to know the truth and learn from mistakes made. If you do, read on.

I have been getting various responses to my last two e-mails. One of you said my statements were very strong. In fact God's statement would be much stronger because He will do so with the fire of hell.

My statement may come across as resentful. Actually I wrote it prayerfully and calmly. If Dr. J had agreed for Ps. ... to step down from leadership and be restored through counselling, the matter could have been dealt with quickly and peacefully. Ps. ...'s apology would also bring healing and forgiveness to those affected. What I am doing is really to save Dr. J and Ps. ... before it is too late.

The statement is to expose sins that Hope leaders/members in the know were too scared to speak out about. That is not Bibilcal at all. Sins and darkness belongs to the devil. The statement also serves as a strong warning that God is cleansing His Church before the Lord's glorious return. All of us should wake up, take note and learn from the mistakes made.

God's standards on overseers are crystal clear:-


*[1 Tim 3:2,4,5 NIV]*

2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect.

5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)

*[Titus 1:6-8 NIV]*

6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless — not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.

8 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

God's Word on sexual adultery is even stronger:-

*[Prov 6:27-29,32 NIV]*

27 Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned?

28 Can a man walk on hot coals without his feet being scorched?

29 So is he who sleeps with another man's wife; no one who touches
her will go unpunished.

32 But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so
destroys himself.

Some of you asked for evidences. Would I have made such serious allegations without them? They have been brought by at least 2 or 3 witnesses. I am merely exposing it so that the others may take warning.

*[1 Tim 5:19-21 NIV]*

19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought
by two or three witnesses.

20 Those who sin are to be *rebuked publicly, so that the others may
take warning. *

21 I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect
angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing
out of favouritism.

Finally, let us learnt from Ted Haggard, a sinner pastor who has truly
repented [attached]

*Enter The Land,*

Friday, January 30, 2009

Dr Kriengsak

In case you want to google.. Dr Joseph name is no longer in used. His english name is Dr. Dan

Why did he change his name ???

Hope Split with Videos

Here is a Split in Thai... with links to documents. If you can read thai... this one is for you...


ลำดับ เหตุการณ์ Fact Sheet
คริสตจักรสนับสนุน การลงเลือกตั้ง สว
Hope Church supports Dr. Nalinee Taweesin in Senator Election "No.7 Campaign"

Senator No.7 wins the election.

ปฎิวัติ การเลือกตั้งเป็นโมฆะ
Senator election result is overthrown by martial law of coup d'etat in 2006

คริสตจักรสนับสนุน การลงเลือกตั้ง สส
Hope Church supports Dr. Kriengsak Chareonwongsak in "MP campaign" in 2007 general election

Encourage/exhort church member to take part in the MP campaign

Dr. Kriengsak Chareonwongsak declares withdrawal from the general election.

การสนับสนุน ลงพื้นที่ เลือกตั้งผู้ว่า กทม no2
Hope Church supports Dr.Kriengsak Chareonwongsak for Bangkok governor in "No.2 Campaign"

พฤหัสฯ 17 ก.ค. 08 ช่วงเช้า
Thur Morning, 17th June 2008

คำสอนเรื่อง "คริสเตียนกับศาสนพิธี" โดย อ.P n ค่าย Retreat UL สระบุรี
The teaching of "Christian and Thai religious ceremony" by Ps PeN at the UL retreat, Saraburi
คำสอนอ.P n เรื่องคต.กับศาสนพิธี

VCD อ. นกกระจาบ สอนเรื่องการไหว้รูปเคารพ
The teaching of "Christian and Thai religious ceremony" by Ps Nokkajarb

ช่วงเดือน สิงหาคม และ กันยายน 2008
From Aug - Sep 2008

อ.P N ไม่เข้าประชุม อนก. เลย โดยมอบหมายให้ อ.YY เป็นผู้นำประเด็นไปแจ้งหรือปรึกษาหารือนอกห้องประชุม
Ps. PeN doesn't join the "Aor Nor Gor" meeting but assigns Ps. YoY to lead the meeting and control discussions outside the meeting.

6 หรือ 7 ตุลาคม 2008
6th or 7th Oct 2008

อ.P N เรียกประชุม RL เพื่อโยนหินถามทางว่าจะแยกคจ.ออกจากมูลนิธิ โดยจะเอาคริสตจักรไปสังกัดกับสหกิจคริสเตียน เพราะทำงานกับ อนก.ไม่ได้ รู้สึกอึดอัด แต่ RL ส่วนมากไม่เอาด้วย เรื่องจึงตกไป
Pastor ... call RL meeting ask if detach church from foundation.
Hope church may register under "Sahakit" because he feel frustrate in working with "Aor Nor Gor," but most RL disagree.

14 ต.ค. 2008
14th Oct 2008
ใน การประชุม อนก.ที่เพิ่งจะเข้ากันครบครั้งแรกในรอบหลายเดือน ที่ประชุมมีมติไม่เอาคจ.เข้าไปยุ่งเกี่ยวกับการเมืองอีก และมีแนวทางว่าจะยกเลิกส่วน S ให้กลับไปสังกัดส่วนเดิม
At the full-board meeting for the first time in many months, "Aor Nor Gor" meeting agrees that the church will not take part in politics again. It is likely to dismiss the S region.

16 ต.ค. 2008
16th Oct 2008
อ.S N ไปแบ่งปันในชั้น LEP (ชั้นเรียนพระคัมภีร์ของคณะผู้นำ) โดยยังยืนยันว่าจะต้องทำงาน SD ต่อไป เป็นการกลับมติที่ประชุม อนก. โดยปริยาย
A.Sunny shares in LEP (leader bible study) class and affirms that SD work must be continued - this reverses the agreement of "Aor Nor Gor" meeting.

พุธ 22 ตุลาคม 2008
Wed 22nd Oct 2008
ประธานมูลนิธิ ออกแถลงการ 18 หน้า
The president of the foundation announces the "18 pages declaration."

22-24 ตุลาคม 2008
22nd-24th Oct 2008
UL Camp

ศุกร์ 31 ต.ค.08
Fri 31st Oct 08
ประกาศจากมูลนิธิฯ ที่ติดตามสถานนมัสการต่างๆ
The 18 pages declaration of foundation's president is announced and posted at all Hope Churchs.
(ดู รูปภาพ ประกาศได้จาก กระทู้นี้)

RL & สมาชิกบางส่วนประกาศ สมานฉันท์
Some RLs and members initiate "Peaceful Conformity Policy"

การประชุม ระหว่างผู้นำ รวมไปถึง ผู้นำจากต่างประเทศ
Meeting of Hope Church's elders and oversea leaders

พุธ 5 พ.ย.08
Wed 5th Nov 08
ประกาศไล่เจ้าหน้าที่มูลนิธิฯ ออก 4 คน
Dismissal of 4 of the foundation's staff announced.
(ดู รูปภาพ ประกาศได้จาก กระทู้นี้)

จดหมายปลดผู้นำภาค และ เชิญประชุมฟังคำชี้แจง
Letter of dismissal of region leaders, and the invitation of province leaders to Ps. PeN's statement are announced.

แถลงการ กับผู้นำ ครน โดยคณะศบ 2 โรงแรม
Statements of Ps. PeN and other 2 pastors in his team are held at 2 hotels

จันทร์ 10 พ.ย.08
Mon 10th Nov 08
ประกาศแต่งตั้ง A.RS ขึั้นเป็น ศบ คจ ความหวัง อย่างเป็นทางการ
The appointment of Ps. RS to be Senior Pastor of Hope of God church is formally declared.
ฉบับ 1
ฉบับ 2

วันอังคารที่ 11 พ.ย. 08 ช่วงเช้า
Tue Morning, 11st Nov 08
ผู้นำหลักเอกประชุมร่วมกับ อ.Vision และอ.มินนี่
Meeting between region leaders and Ps. ... and A....

อังคาร 11 พ.ย.08 ช่วงบ่าย
Tue Afternoon, 11st Nov 08
เสียงที่ผน.ครน.ท่านหนึ่ง ถูกกีดกันไม่ให้เข้าห้องประชุม
Audio clip of a province leader who are prohibited from entering the meeting room.

อังคาร 11 พ.ย.08 ช่วงค่ำ
Tue evening, 11st Nov 08
อ.S t แถลงการณ์ที่ โรงแรม Winsor
Official Statment by Pastor Somtop at Winsor Hotel
อ.S t แถลงการณ์

อังคาร 11 พ.ย.08 ช่วงค่ำ
Tue evening, 11st Nov 08
อ.P n แถลงการณ์ที่ โรงแรม Winsor
Official Statement by Pastor ... at Winsor Hotel
อ.P n แถลงการณ์

พฤ 14 พฤศจิ 2008
Thur 14 Nov 2008
คำพยากรของ ซินดี้ เจคอป
Cindy Jacobs' prophecies.
คริสตจักรสมุยออกประกาศ และ ถอนเงินออกจากธนาคาร
Declaration of Hope of Samui church and withdrawal of money from old bank account.
Official statement from Pastor Rubina

เสาร์ 15 พฤศจิ 2008
Sat 15th Nov 2008
Announcement of the church held at train authority association club
เสาร์ที่ 15 พฤศจิกายน 2008

คำแถลงการณ์ของ อ. P N

17 พย.2008
น.3 น. 4 แถลงการณ์เลือกฝ่ายแล้วในที่ประชุมภาค (หลังจากหลักเอกไปร่วมประชุมที่ กทม.ฝ่ายไหน ติดตามเอง ครับ) 8 จว.อยู่กับ มคท. ผน.จว.ที่ติดเมย.เลือก จงรักภักดีผู้นำท่านเดิม( คจ.ท่านแยกออกเป็นสองฝ่าย) เพชรบูรณ์เปลี่ยนแบรนด์เลือกตรงกลาง(ที่เชื่อว่ามีสันติภาพที่สุด) สรุป แกะดำ 2 คนกับอีก 1 จว.

18 พย.2008 เวลา 21.00 น.
คริ สตจักรความหวังเพชรบูรณ์อันประกอบด้วย ครน.ลูก อ.หล่มสัก,อ.หล่มเก่า,อ.น้ำหนาว,อ.เขาค้อ, อ.วิเชียรบุรี,อ.บึงสามพัน,อ.หนองไผ่ ,อ.วังโป่ง ครน.ทั้ง 9 อำเภอและอีก 6 สถานนมัสการตำบล ร่วมลงนามลาออกจากคริสตจักรความหวังในมูลนิธิความหวังของชาวไทย เพื่อวางตัวเป็นกลางตามเจตนารมณ์ที่ประกาศไว้ตั้งแต่เริ่มได้รับแถลงการณ์ จากมูลนิธิฯ

ผมอยากให้เห็นชัดๆ ถึงลำดับและ ขั้นตอน ขอให้เป็นความจริง (เอาความรู้สึกออกไปก่อน ยกเว้นความรัก) เพื่อเป็นประโยชน์กับคนที่ไม่ได้ทราบความเป็นมาข้อมูลตั้งแต่ต้น

ผมจะคอย edit ข้อมูลเพิ่มครับ หากพี่น้องมีข้อมูลที่อยากให้เติมก็บอกได้ครับ โดยเฉพาะ เวลา สถานที่

อยากให้ Admin ช่วยทำ link ไปสู่เอกสาร ที่อ้างอิงด้วยครับ

A post from About Rubina

A post from Bible discuss... on Rubina

Please note that Ps Rubina was Regional Pastor for P Region
but after we had problem with the news she had to work for the whole community to protect us in legal issue so she move to the administration part
However nowadays she still be one of the BOD of the church
when she was P region Pastor she still cover P' Kobchai and many P senior which you may know

Therefore she has the qualification of the Spiritual leader.

Monday, January 26, 2009

The main website for Hope Bangkok Church

I have been wondering why the hope of Bangkok Church has no www. and instead was

Then i found out that the original main page was . Its prob one of those main page they have hijacked and used. As i notice some HGI churches using this webpage link on their website.

But when clicked on the above website brings you to "PN's NEW" Church.

Hopeofbangkok Church

I will sign off until further development from the HOPEOFBANGKOK Church. But all i can say for now, is the current leadership which split the Hope Church and brought out almost 50% from Bangkok has alot of questions over their integrity, honesty and morality which they have never sufficiently answered but seemly just ran away and start a new church to do what they did all over again.

What i do know is if they leaders still do not change I am pretty sure that the same will happen again. And when the church gets big, people will still ask them.

1. How they are running the church finance
2. What is our true invovlement behind Dr.J and his political party.

" If people refuse to change and run away then, I am sure the same testing will happen all over again." ... its just a matter of time.


Something i found about the payments and minutes

Saturday, January 24, 2009

Theorcacy redefined

One of the key talk about the main difference with the system as often highlighted by our founder was that in Hope we believe in Theocracy where Pastor's will have the ultimate say. The teachings in the V&P and also One Man One World often extol the system above that of traditional church with lay elders and board elders who employ pastor.

I do believe in Theocracy and that spiritual leaders should have the final say in the church. But, with the recent events. I have come to a conclusion that though in theory it is good, this system needs to improve because, Theocratic system used without proper definition and accountability becomes a hybrid between Absolute Monarchy and Communist. Where the leaders decision right or wrong, legal or illegal becomes a law to obey and any questions on their decisions becomes target for expulsion and terms like disobedience to authority used. It does seems that every time a question is being raised on their conduct and actions, submission becomes the key. So in the end we become subordinates and servants or those whom are suppose to exhibit servanthood leadership. Its abit like the "animal farm" - this is a good book to read, where the "pigs" who were suppose to create an utopian society for the animals become master and rulers themselves.

Now what is wrong with our current system ? Well, in our current system, if we are always to report and submit upwards, then who would the top and highest leadership be accountable to ?
If we are all sinners and are imperfect, then there should not be an exemption to the top leaders from being under spiritual covering and accountability. It should be a pularity of leaders, where there is check and counter-check on each others conduct, as leaders have to lead their lives above reproach.

The current financial issue and leadership issue stems from one simple fact. The highest leadership have no one they account to and report to so in the end. As they are the top leadership and they have the ultimate say, then without unbiased opinion to guide often times we would just follow blindly.

In the assembly of God, most Church often invite a non-executive director or pastor from another church to sit on the board to provide a unbiased view especially on financial issues.
This is actually now the standard accounting practice around the world since the financial scandals in America

Besides accoutnability. Leaders must live their lives according to the commands in the bible. If they have committed a sin which is part of the 10 commandments like Murder, stealing, adultery... they should step down. Leaderships has its privileges but also its responsibilities.
therefore a good way is to have a Code of conduct for all future leaders to follow.

Thursday, January 22, 2009

Hope of God Church SPLIT ( Timeline)

This took a while in compiling. It came from many many sources and I have taken hours to put them in sequence. enjoy !!! Its all by date so once you read, you will understand some of the things happening in Hope

This is provided as PS PN is still working to try and hoodwinked alot of people. THE key thing is they have never been able to stand in front of GOD to answer for their action and have not live their live above reproach, but always avoiding answering their action. Insisting we OBEY authority,WHAT AUTHORITY ? Ungodly ones ?You decide,I have cut and paste alot of different info so " I" is not me but the various author



STATUS of Hope of Bangkok Church, Hope of Thai People Foundation According to Thai law, churches in Thailand have no legal status. It is fine for Christ’s believers to gather together to worship God. But once the church grows bigger in size and holds a lot of assets and properties, it needs to register and reports the church practice to the government (See Romans 13). The church founder has realized about this fact since the beginning; that is why in the early stage of the church, he put the church under EFT umbrella. However, due to our ‘naughty’ behaviors then, EFT ‘expelled’ us from the membership. Not long after that, the founder registered ‘Hope of Bangkok Church’ as ‘Hope of Thai People Foundation’ in the early of 1990’s (see the 18-page document). And to protect the church from persecution (the church was falsely accused as a ‘cult’) and protect the founder (accused as a leader of the cult) that time, the church and the foundation ‘have been combined’ by the church policy (approved by the founder), and by law since 1995 or 1996 (can’t remember). Since then, Sister Rubina has been appointed by the founder as a representative of the church and the foundation to defend at the court, and she has been doing the appointed task faithfully for at least 16 years.

POSITIONS of Sister Rubina (RB) in the church

RB is the President of Hope of Thai People Foundation. The foundation is a legal body of Hope of Bangkok Church, and has to annually report the church practices, finance status/account, and declare the church’s assets and properties to the government. She is ALSO an elder of Hope of Bangkok Church; there are 5 elders in the church eldership team - Ps PN, Sister Sunee, Ps Somthob, Ps Nimit and Sister Rubina. All the elders have been appointed by the founder, and are equal in authority (the pastor is the first among the EQUALS, and is the chief overseer - see in Hope Philosophy of Ministry.) RB was appointed by Ps PN to be in charge of the finance department


( This is not finished but is quite comprehensive ) I will add details leading up to the event.. if anyone has anything i can add before June 17 do let me know.

17 June 2008

- Teaching about ‘Idol Worship’ was taught by Sister Suthanee (Jarb) to members who were sent to support Dr J’s political campaign (for Bangkok Governor), and to the church leaders in a class called ‘LEP’.
- The teaching of "Christian and Thai religious ceremony" by Ps PeN at the UL retreat, Saraburi
- There was doubt in the theology taught by Dr. J’s side: everything (even sinful practice) can be done as long as we do it for God; God looks into our heart/attitude, not just our action. Is it true and biblical for a believer to worship an idol if necessary/or if such a practice can lead to an achievement for God? Is it true and biblical that corruption, twisting the truth, etc. can be done as long as we do it for God?
- The teaching of "Christian and Thai religious ceremony" by Ps Nokkajarb
- [url]viewtopic.php?f=8&t=532&...=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20[/url]

From Aug - Sep 2008
- Ps. PeN doesn't join the "Aor Nor Gor" meeting but assigns Ps. YoY to lead the meeting and control discussions outside the meeting. March 2008
- RB was appointed by Ps PN to be in charge of the finance department (replacing Ps Somthob) in March 2008. Since then on, she had been finding ‘the faults’ in the system.

July 2008

- Ps PN made a statement in UL retreat that the church did not agree with the ‘idol worship’ teaching. However, the members who supported the campaign still needed to continually do the ritual practice (but not a ‘must’, I think).

Sep 23

- Ps PN suggested an idea of separating Hope of Bangkok Church from Hope of Thai People Foundation in the Church Growth Meeting (CGM - attendees were Regional Leaders).

Oct 6
- The Foundation’s Finance Measure was released according to the law, all sorts of the offerings are to be transferred to the foundation’s bank accounts only.
- (During that week or a week later, there was a rumor that Sister Rubina (RB) would be excommunicated. Regarding this, two of my friends (who are working at multimedia ministry) testified that he and she received a call from his/her boss. The boss asked each of them to get prepared the video camera and only listen to him because there would be an announcement to excommunicate RB soon.
- Pastor ... call RL meeting ask if detach church from foundation. Hope church may register under "Sahakit" because he feel frustrate in working with "Aor Nor Gor," but most RL disagree.

Oct 7

- Ps PN, again, suggested the idea of separation in CGM. He said that he felt uncomfortable to lead the church with legal covering of the foundation. He also gave an example regarding HGI money that was withheld by RB; in this case, he thought RB offended his authority.

Oct 8
- Brother Surachart, the foundation’s treasurer disappeared from his house. His wife came to the church that morning and shared the story with tear to the church’s staff in devotion meeting. She said in grief that the husband had been working under great pressures for a long time but no leaders had paid attention to him. She also said that she knew everything about the money, and if she couldn’t find her husband by that night, she would go to see the police and n

Oct 14
- Ps Kobchai & Sister Nalinee Chirathivat and some leaders in P region (businessmen ministry) resigned from the church. They reasoned that they didn’t agree with the church’s practice (politics). To them, they joined the vision because they desired to fulfill the Great Commission by building strong and biblical people to build strong and biblical churches. But if the church changed the vision, they needed to leave as their vision was not for politics.
- It was told by someone that Ps Kobchai, who is a friend to DR.J, went to see DR.J asking him why he kept on investing his life for kind of political position. DR.J told him that because ‘it is the answer. - For him, politics is the answer; if Ps Kobchai believed that the church is the answer, he had a freedom to do whatever he believed.
- At the full-board meeting for the first time in many months, "Aor Nor Gor" meeting agrees that the church will not take part in politics again. It is likely to dismiss the S region.

Oct 15

- Ps Somthob declared re the church’s money to the regional leaders in CGM. However, he said that he would tell only the issues ‘the RLs COULD ACCEPT.’ When some leaders (Ps Pitak) asked about the corruption in case of a portion set for the daughter churches’ senior ministers, Ps Somthob accepted that it is TRUE, but he didn’t do it according to his own will - someone else asked him to do.
- Regarding this matter, in each month, the money was withdrawn for the purpose of supporting those senior ministers. The total amount according to the budget plan was 500,000 baht, but it was ACTUALLY transferred to the senior ministers across the country only 50,000 baht. Actually, they were expected to receive 2,700 baht per month, but they regularly received only 300 baht. When some leaders asked Sister Supee (the wife of Ps Somthob) regarding this, it was accepted that the rest of money was transferred to support DR.J.
- The church eldership team (Ps PN, Sister Sunee, Ps Somthob, Ps Nimit and Sister Rubina) had a consensus that the church would no longer have any policy to support the politics work. The money used to support the politics work was required to return back to the church. However, after the meeting, Ps Somthob privately told Sister Rubina that he was not certain if there would be enough money to return to the church.

Oct 16
- Achan.Sunny shares in LEP (leader bible study) class and affirms that SD work must be continued - this reverses the agreement of "Aor Nor Gor" meeting.

Oct 22
- The 18-page document was released. ( TO LEADERS ONLY)

22nd-24th Oct 2008
- UL Camp


- Ps Simon had a meeting with Ps PN, Sister Rubina, Ps Nimit and Ps Yongyuth. Setting of the meeting was set by Ps PN, and had Peung as a translator. Video recording was done throughout the 8-hour meeting. However, the statement could not be released as it could not be specified that who would be responsible/a responsible head to get back the money to the church, and correct the unrighteous practices happened in the church.
- Three Charges brought by PN on Rubina was discussed

Charge#1: RB’s action of withholding HGI’s Money is against Ps PN’s authority.
- RB told SE that Ps PN was informed already that such an action is ILLEGAL;if she, as the president of the foundation, allowed the treasurer to withdraw the money for the political purpose (campaign), she and the treasurer would be imprisoned for 3-5 years. Besides, the responsible body of HGI’s account is Hope of Thai People Foundation because then, when the bank account was open, HGI still had no legal body. She also told Ps Simon that the money was transferred to ‘her territory’; thus, as the highest authority of the foundation, she could not allow anyone to withdraw the money for such a purpose. [That is why the ‘second’ amount of money approved by HGI (during LC in Hong Kong) was transferred to another account called ‘Social Entrepreneur’.]
- Then, Ps Simon asked Ps PN before the attendees why he didn’t tell him regarding this; if he had known it before (that it’s ILLEGAL), he would have not agreed to transfer the money. The answer Ps PN replied to Ps Simon’s question was “I don’t know; I can’t remember.” (He accused RB that her action is against his authority; but he never told that RB kept him informed already that the action is illegal.) By the way, with my very own eyes, RB is the one who transferred the HGI money back to HGI account named Hope Church (Singapore).

Charge#2: RB’s action of distributing the 18-page document is sinful.

- Fact: RB said that she had put all efforts to stop such a practice (the means the founder and his people did in withdrawing and spending the money). Though she did not go to see Dr.J by herself, she regularly submitted a proposal (finance situation and suggestions) and report (in black-and-white) to him,and all the Hope Bangkok Elders knew. All the procedures in Matthew 18 had been already done before she decided to do the final stage (in Matthew 18) to keep the church informed of the guilt. Moreover, the practices stated in the 18-page document are ILLEGAL, NOT just ‘an in-house matter’. The biblical action in responding to the faults (unrighteous practices) should be done; while the legal action should be done also. Otherwise, the church/the foundation would be sued and closed down by the government (with an allegation of deceiving/misleading the country’s citizens)

- Charge#3: RB’s action has caused division in the church and is against divine authority.
- Fact: As an eye-witness in many situations, as stated in point (I), Ps PN is the one who initiated an idea of separating the church from the foundation. He suggested this idea to regional leaders on Sep 23, and Oct 7 – even before RB released the 18-page document. It was told that the hidden reason was due to the founder’s dissatisfaction on money spending policy (budget approval) of the foundation made by RB.
- In fact, RB has been appointed by Ps PN himself to be in charge of the church finance department since March 2008 (replacing Ps Somthob, who had been functioning that task for more than 20 years). Since then, RB had found many ‘flaws’/ ‘faults’ in the system. RB said that she had put every effort to keep the founder informed of the finance situation, but no sound response from him at all. On the contrary, He still kept ordering to draw out the money for the campaign; To him, RB’s resistance to keep the church finance in ‘right’ status and have all the practices biblically seemed ‘rebellious’ (Ps Nimit can testify this).
- (Legally, she also has to annually report the church practices to the government; the church was registered as Hope of Thai People Foundation, in the other word, Hope of Thai People Foundation is the legal body of Hope of Bangkok Church.)
- After the release of the 18-page document, RB never called any member for a meeting. On the other hand, almost a thousand of members would like to hear from her and see the evidence. Thus, they asked her to see them. (Ps Nimit did not help RB to draft the 18-page document.) By the way, as the church’s elders, both RB and Ps Nimit are equal to Ps PN, Ps Somthob and Sister Sunee (as mentioned above). If it was found with solid evidence that the three did wrong or had unbiblical practices, is it biblical and sound for the two to correct them?
- On the day of RB’s announcement and when my RL friends and I went to see her at her home, RB clearly stated that she didn’t want to make any division in the church. She merely needed to ‘clear up’ the unrighteous practices in the church. Besides, she was more than willing to support Ps PN to be the pastor, but with no interference from those who keep going ahead for politics (as their practices really harm the church).

Charge#4: RB’s action is done out of evil motive.

- Fact: Only God knows whose motive is right.
- Opinion: My point of remark here is that RB’s actions were only done in ‘black-and-white’ with solid evidence; while the other side’s actions came only by ‘words of mouth’ with no solid evidence. Since RB released the 18-page document, none of the leaders mentioned in the paper had come to talk to RB face to face/before the members. If they were sincere enough, they should present themselves and have an open conversation even before eyes and ears of the church members.
- I think God concerns both ‘content’ and ‘motive’. If I did wrong, though my enemy blamed me out of his evil motive, I could not say that the content he blamed was invalid; Right is right and wrong is wrong. To me, content is more important than means of conveying the message or motive. And I think God considers all.

Thu Oct 30:

- After passing the draft of communique (statement) to Sis RB, she told me that it could not be released unless Ps PN said that he would take responsibility to settle the issue and specified who would help Ps ST to bring back the money. RB would send Ps PN and Ps Yongyuth a message explaining about the reason by herself. Thus, both pastors were informed. Not long after that, Ps Yongyuth told me to tell you that (1) he had encouraged Ps PN to take responsibility and help Ps ST to get back the money, but Ps PN told him he didn't know about the money matter and asked Ps ST to take action; (2) Ps Yongyuth asked Ps PN to talk to Sis RB directly, but Ps PN told him that she wouldn't listen to him.

Oct 31

- After seeing you off at the Pinnacle Hotel, I went back to the office. All the heads of worship service center (Ps Kriengkrai, Aomsilp, Tammarak, Pitak, Pattamarote, Chaloemchai and I +Ps Tanon) gathered together to discuss about the issue - how we should do to settle it as soon as possible. In the meeting, I kept all attendees informed that the communique (statement) couldn't be announced as at the moment, 'the ball' was at Ps PN - he needed to take responsibility and specified who would help Ps ST to get the money back. Anyhow, we knew that to so do was very challenging for him - (1) to clearly state that he would take responsibility to settle the problem as he is the top spiritual authority in the CH. (2) to talk to the person, who was accused as 'the one who moved behind the scene' directing Ps ST to withdraw money, Sis Sunee/Ps Watchara to borrow, to return the money and help Ps ST/Sunee/Watchara to bring back the money. (3) to deal with the abuse of authority (if it was true), and (4) to discuss with Sis RB directly if he had any further query. Thus, in conclusion, we all (RLs) agreed to go to see him at home, expressing words of encouragement and support, as well as praying for him. Anyhow, Ps Tammarak (who gave him a call) told us that Ps PN was inconvenient; he would be available to see us next Tuesday. By the way, while discussing, someone called Ps Tanon telling him a story - there was a rumor that,by Ps Nayapong as a coordinator, S Region (SD people) and U5 (a region which its members isRamkhamhaeng University students) would split to have their own service at the Ambassador Hotel,Sukhumvit 11. Besides, Ps Nayapong was trying to convince other pastors under him to join theservice (a pastor named Tossapol called Ps Tanon, giving him this report). On the top of that, Ps Nayapong claimed that Ps PN would preach there every week. To encourage him and to deal with the rumor, thus, I wrote an e-mail to Ps PN telling him the story and emphasizing that all the RLs would fully support him to biblically resolve the situation, with no interference from the outsider(s). And ask him to consider taking some action if the rumor was true.

Nov 1

- One of Ps PN's secretariat team called me in the morning asking why the communique (statement) couldn't be released. I told her that we had done our best and Ps PN needed to discuss with Sis RB by himself; and encouraged her to pray for Ps PN. However, the secretary told me that Ps PN hadn't received any message from Sis RB yet. Thus, I contacted Sis RB to resend the Thursday message to Ps PN. Soon after that RB replied to me as the following: 'Sent again already. It was long, so this time I sent it in 4 sections'. Then, I sent a message to Ps PN informing him that the message was resent already.

- The following is his response (translated from Thai mssg): 'I don't want to read anything any more. I want to rest, preparing the sermon and getting myself ready for conducting wedding ceremony. Thus, I didn't pay any attention to read the message.'

Nov 2

- Another Sunday Service was conducted at the Ambassador Hotel, Bangkok. The attendees on that day (Hope Bangkok members) understood that it was another service center of Hope of Bangkok Church. However, it appeared that the offerings were transferred to a private bank account, not the foundation’s bank account, which was illegal.

- Consequently, some of the church leaders were sacked due to the violation against the 6-Oct finance measure.
- I attended the Sunday Service (SS) at the north center. One of my sub-district leaders 2 informed that one of her CLs (who was working for SD office) approached her on Sat, telling that she would join the SS @ 'the new center'; and would come back to see me to ask for 'official' permission in the afternoon. Thus, I waited to see that CL. When she came, she told me the reasons and justified herself that she was right and wanted to 'identify' herself with her colleagues. At first, I didn't understand clearly and told her that Ps PN didn't want to see any separation; all RLs were told to gather every member to be still, wait upon the Lord and attend the SS at their service center.
- However, the girl told me that 'some higher leaders' would keep me informed of the justification later; and, surprisingly, she said that even Ps PN, though not able to be there in person, sent them 'greetings and welcome message' via video clip!

Nov 3

- I was told by some leaders (RL's wife) about the justification - Ps PN claimed that he had to do so as those people (S Region + U5) were scattered by Sis RB's paper. Thus, as a shepherd, he needed to gather them. Besides, Ps PN had a meeting with leaders of the new center at a restaurant yesterday.

- Tammarak ( called me in the afternoon asking me to help verify Ps PN's claim (He was at Sukhumvit center yesterday). Ps Tammarak said that one of his district leaders asked Ps PN why he didn't announce any message that week. Ps PN told that leader that he had a discussion with RB and some leaders already; but RB told him via text message that nothing could be announced until the money was back to the CH; she didn't keep her word again; Ps PN even forwarded RB's message to Ps Nimit ( and telling him that RB didn't keep her word again.

- Regarding this, I told Ps Tammarak that to my understanding, RB's point of concern in releasing the communique (statement) was not about money. Rather, she would like to know who would take responsibility to deal with the problem and help Ps ST to get the money back. However, I never saw the message, so I couldn't verify the claim.
- However, as I would like to know about the truth, I had a chance to see Sis RB that evening. Thus, I asked her if I could see the message she sent to Ps PN. Actually, I couldn't remember every word. But what I saw was mainly about 'if Ps PN would specify the responsible person(s) or to take the responsibility to deal with the issues and help Ps ST to bring the money back.' (But how come Ps PN twisted the message and told that leader 'RB wouldn't do anything until all the 3 money was return'!)

- As mentioned via a text message that our RLs had an opportunity to have lunch fellowship with Ps PN.To my opinion, today he (Ps PN) looked so weak and weary both physically and spiritually. During the meal, he tried to be joyful but it seemed that he was under great pressure
- After we finished our dish, Ps Yongyuth started saying to Ps PN that we all were there purposed to encourage him as we highly regarded him as a senior pastor and we would fully support him in resolving the situation. Then, Ps PN shared with us about the meeting result (when he met up with you, RB, Nimit and Yongyuth) and he was willing to announce but it seemed that RB might not agree to do so (anyway, he didn't mentioned about the text message RB sent to him, informing the reason why she couldn't release the announcement). As for the service at the Ambassador Hotel, he said that as some leaders who were sent to help the election campaign felt disappointed because the foundation wouldn't receive them back till, possibly, next year; they felt that 'they had no place to stand'. Thus, they asked Ps PN if they could have their own service. That's why Ps PN agreed and sent them greetings and welcome message. (But, to our agreement, though the foundation wouldn't receive them back till next year, they are still the church's members. So I was questioning of 'their interpretation' as they had all members in Sregion plus U5 region with them in the 'new' service. Moreover, to my view, they should rather release members under S region and give them freedom to choose if they want to return to their original region).

- Ps PN called Thai RMCs for a meeting at Bangna (in the evening). He went there with Ps Rungson. Anyhow, some RMCs called RB if she could be there together. When RB was there, Ps PN and Ps Rungson were about to end the meeting. RB asked if they would meet all RMCs together with her (asked them to clarify to the RMCs together). But Ps PN and Ps Rungson refused.

- Then, RB had a meeting with all RMCs and clarified the reasons she was obliged to launch the paper.However, as RB mentioned about Ps PN's 'personal issue' (I can't verify if she really did so, as I heard from some leaders), some of the RMCs felt so bad of the information.

Nov 4
- Regional Leaders had a lunch fellowship with Ps PN purposed to encourage him to resolve the problems arising in the church and stand for righteousness.

Nov 5th
- Letter of dismissal of region leaders, and the invitation of province leaders to Ps. PeN's statement are announced.

Nov 8
- After the morning prayer meeting, Ps PN presented himself at Ramkhamhaeng Student Service (U Service), Bang Na center. He said that the house (the church) was no longer livable. He was about to resign. He would start a new church soon, and it would be great if all of them (U regions) would join together.
- (Got evidence – testimony from the 4 U leaders telling me, my husband and Sister EM in mp3 format, which I’ll send you later).

How Ps PN Announced in Service ( An account from one Leader)

9.00 a.m.: I got a call from Ps David Chen asking when I could be online and had a talk with Sis Hai Eng. I told him that I was about to laundry my clothes and would be on skype at 11.00 a.m. Not too long after that, Sister Em gave me a call telling that there was a ‘surprise’ situation at U Service, Bangna Center (Ps Pitak – her husband is the chief of this center; U-service is regularly conducted on Saturday at Bangna Center to serve Ramkhamhaeng University Students – the size is about 1,500 pple altogether). Ps PN was there and spoke to the church attendees that he would resign from the foundation and start a new church (the detail would be explained later). She asked if I could be there, but I told her that it might not be possible as I needed to have a talk with Hai Eng at 11 a.m.

09.30 a.m.: While I was praying and reading BB, asking for God’s help and direction to deal with the situation, Ps Nimit called me. He asked me and my husband to be there as the U RLs (4 leaders) were discouraged by Ps PN’s speech and really needed us to explain the truth to their people. Then, my husband and I got ourselves ready and drove there.

10.30 a.m.: My husband and I were at Bangna Center. There were approximately 800 attendees. Ps Nimit and Sister Rabieb (his wife) were encouraging the congregation to be still and not in a panic. Sis Rabieb encouraged them to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and prayed for them; Ps Nimit shared with them about ‘true’ unity in Christ. Later, Ps Golf preached the word of God. Apart from the 4 U leaders and their wives, RLs who presented themselves there were Ps Tammarak, Ps Pattamarote, Ps Krich, Ps Lim and I.
11.00 a.m.: While Ps Golf was preaching, I asked the 4 U RLs and the wife of Ps Tod if they could tell us the story. The 4 U RLs are: Ps Big (U1), Ps Tod (U2) +his wife, Ps Chate (U3), and Ps Kay (U4). My husband and Ps Tammarak were also there to listen to the story (but then we didn’t record as we couldn’t find any mp3 recorder; anyway, we made it later, but then Ps Chate was away; Sister Em was a witness).
Last Friday (Nov 7, 2008), they made an appointment to see Ps PN at home (9 pm) as they were confused about the happening and wanted to seek for the truth from their senior pastor. (Prior to the event, some of their district/sub-district leaders went to see Ps PN at home and were told by him that RLs didn’t support him. Thus, their leaders felt very bad against them.) They arrived at Ps PN’s home around 8 p.m. But Ps PN had not been at home yet. They had an opportunity to see Sis Sunee; she did nothing but cried a lot as she was just fired by the foundation. (On Thursday evening, there was an announcement from the Hope of Bangkok Church, Hope of Thai People Foundation that 4 staff – Sister Sunee, Ps Yongyuth, Ps Pijit and Dr Sutit were sacked as they violated the finance measure.
Sis Sunee’s case: There were evidences that she really ‘forced’ pastors of some daughter churches to transfer their church’s money, which their members offered for the church building, to her – to use for the campaign. And Sis Sunee told them not to tell anyone.)

Ps Yongyuth’s case: Due to the start of a new service at the Ambassador hotel, the attendees there were told that the service belongs to Hope of Bangkok Church, and even Ps PN gave them greetings and welcome message via video clip. However, the offerings were transferred to a new bank account named ‘Hope of Bangkok Church’, but some of the authorized persons were Pi Jarb’s staff which the foundation never gave them any authority, and the practice was not allowed to do so according to the finance measure. To Ps Yongyuth’s role as the church
MD, he had to report immediately once he found the fault (actually, there had been a rumor concerning this since Oct 31), but even 3 days later, he didn’t do so. However, Ps Yongyuth had already met with Sis RB explaining his fault and Sis RB is considering re-stating him.)
Ps PN arrived at almost 10 pm. He started sharing that RB sacked his wife, Ps Yongyut and Ps Pijit; she froze Ps Aomsilp; Ps PN threatened the 4 pastors that the same thing would happen to them one day. He told them, that he and his wife always gave the 4 leaders an opportunity though they were not qualified to be a pastor (some of them were not acceptable by daughter church leaders; some hadn’t graduated yet when they were appointed). Ps PN also said that actually Ps Nimit was so loyal to KC, but when working with KC for the campaign and was scolded, rebuked many time, Ps Nimit was hurt and had bitterness towards KC. Likewise, Sis RB also had bitterness towards KC as she was scolded when working for him.
Due to the situation, Ps PN felt that ‘this home’-the CH was no longer livable. He was about to resign on Tuesday (Nov 11) which, then, someone else would make an announcement on his behalf. He would take a break for a month, and later start a new church. He encouraged the leaders that he believed in the gifting in Ephesians 4 and allows them to have a freedom to choose. However, if they would like to join him, it would be great if all the 4 U regions would pack and join the new church together.
Not long after that, Ps Nayapong came to Ps PN’s home. He had a talk with the 4 leaders. Besides talking with them in general issues, he asked if he could visit their center on Saturday. He promised not to mention anything about the situation as he had ever (he taught them many times, talking about rebellion , Moses & Miriam, offence of the authority).
On Saturday Morning (morning prayer service), Ps Nayapong came very early, even before the rest of them. The service started at 7 a.m. At the end of the session, Ps Nayapong held a microphone praying for several issues. When he ended his prayers, the 4 leaders opened their eyes and found that Ps PN was there already! With the microphone in his hand, and while the 4 leaders were astonishing, Ps Nayapong grasped that chance to announce that Ps PN would like to visit them and all the members, and asked the congregation to welcome Ps PN.
When Ps PN was on the stage, he repeated what he told the 4 leaders on Friday night. He claimed that actually, we could run the church without the foundation; the church is the core, not the foundation. He mentioned that Ps Nayapong went to help the campaign with pure and sincere heart, but when the campaign finished, it happened that the foundation didn’t accept him and viewed that those leaders as well as church staff who were sent to work for the campaign as something disgusting, like a ‘skunk’. On the top of that, Ps Nayapong was not paid last month. Ps PN told them that he was about to resign from the foundation and would start a new church soon. Actually, he didn’t want anyone to follow him at that moment. But if they want to join them, it would be good for all 4 regions to join together (he also mentioned that he would bring back U5 to the congregation).
12.00 – 3.30 p.m.: The 4 U RLs invited some RLs, my husband and I to meet up with their district/sub-district leaders and clarify the fact regarding the situation. There, there were: Ps Kriengkrai, Ps Tammarak, Ps Pitak + wife, Ps Pattamarote + wife, Ps Krich, Sis Rabieb, my husband and I. The DLs/SDLs asked us many questions. For example, why the communiqué couldn’t be announced, what the content discussing among Ps PN, Sis RB, Ps YY, Ps NM and Ps SE are about, is it true that the church could not stand alone without the foundation in Thailand, etc. As a result, I thought that all the DLs/SDLs felt much better and encourage to keep unity – stand firm together, and not leave the church to follow any party.
During the Q&A session, Ps Pattamarote had got a message from Ps PN, while I hadn’t. The message was: ‘Windsor Hotel, Sukhumvit 20, this Tuesday night and Sunday’. Not long after that, I got a message from Ps PN: ‘Peung, to keep the situation in a proper stage, you better not go to the LC.’
6.30 p.m.: After having a talk with Ps Simon, Sister Victoria called me. She said that she had some questions to ask. When finished asking the question, she told me that actually, Ps PN asked her not to tell anything to me, but she knew that I knew the fact and always be truthful; she needed to be in God’s will, not man’s. 10.00 p.m.: I got a message from Ps PN: ‘If all RLs still would like to see unity and have me and my wife to be as the CH’s senior pastor for the sake of the flock, I am willing to step backward immediately and ready to solve the problem together with you. But I would like to see all parties yielding to one another and stepping backward. No one can settle the problem alone.’ Soon after that, Ps Golf gave me a call informing that Ps Kowit told him that he (Kowit) and Ps Rungson went to see Ps PN asking him to reconsider his decision. They didn’t want the 10 sheep to be scattered. Thus, all RLs would make an appointment to have a talk with Ps PN tomorrow in the evening.

Cindy Jacobs’ prophecy over PN . At the end of the prophecy, there are 2 conditions God asked him to do: 1) he has to keep UNITY and 2) he has to be HUMBLE before God.

Nov 10

- Thai RMCs (i.e. Ps Sitthichai, Ps Samai, Ps Chuchart, Ps Oranute, Ps Sukanya, etc.) were ‘downplayed’ by Ps PN. Their status then was equal to a Hopeprovincial leader. It was told that Ps PN did such an action because the Thai RMCs did not support him (he told this matter to the provincial leaders in a meeting called ‘congress’, held at Thai Church Council Building.)
- The appointment of Ps. RS to be Senior Pastor of Hope of God church is formally declared. ฉบับ 1 ฉบับ 2

Nov 11

- Ps PN’s statement to the church members at the Windsor Hotel (Ps Somthob and Ps Rungson were there). In the declaration, Ps Rungson said that the church never taught about ‘Idol worship’; and was never under covering of the foundation. Actually, Sister Rubina was also there with the evidence, but she was not allowed to clarify anything. With regards to Ps Rungson’s declaration, I can say that he ‘was not telling the truth’. Because the ‘idol worship’ lesson was really taught by Sister Suthanee to Regional leaders, Groupwork leaders, Office leaders and some district leaders in the early of the year. Besides, one of my sheep who was sent to support the SD work came to me telling that she was strongly not comfortable to do such a practice. Moreover, regarding the covering of the foundation, the truth is that the church has been under legal covering of the foundation for 16 years; even DR.J realizes of this matter.
- Official Statement by Pastor ... at Winsor Hotel
- Audio clip of a province leader who are prohibited from entering the meeting room.
- Official Statment by Pastor Somtop at Winsor Hotel

Nov 14

- Another statement from the foundation (12-page) was released. Official statement from Pastor Rubina viewtopic.php?f=8&t=299&start=0&...=0&sk=t&sd=a
- Declaration of Hope of Samui church and withdrawal of money from old bank account.

Nov 16

- A new Sunday Service led by Ps PN and Ps Rungson at Mandarin Hotel was started. They refused legal covering of the foundation, but still used the name ‘Hope of Bangkok Church’. Ps PN used the first statement issued by HGI at JB LC to justify his action - that HGI leaders SUPPORT HIM. But I am not certain if he told the further detail that HGI supports him to solve the problem biblically. Since then on, Ps PN and his team had been visiting Hope daughter churches across the country. Approximately, 50 percent of the existing churches were separated. It appeared that ‘twisted’ facts and ‘unbalancing’ teaching regarding authority were shared to the flock.
- At present, the church is splitted into 3 churches: (1) the original Hope Church under legal covering of the foundation, (2) Ps PN’s Hope Church (including the politics one), and (3) the new church (neutral) called ‘Nexus Christian Fellowship’ led by Ps Golf (Thanon).
- Key leaders who are still with the original Hope Church are: Bangkok - Ps Nimit (has been appointed by Hope Thailand Leadership team as the senior pastor), Ps Prayuth (Worship), Ps Prapop (Mission), Ps Sawat (Media), Ps Kriengkrai, Ps Pitak, Ps Ratchakit (Mission), Ps Vorapong (World Mission), Ps Tammarak, Ps Chaloemchai, Ps Pattamarote, Ps Krich, Ps Todsapon, Ps Chate, Ps Big, Ps Kay, Ps Suparoek, Ps Surawat (Chin),
- Upcountry - All of the Thai RMCs except Ps Chaiyawit and Ps Chaiyapruek. I was told that Ps Chuchart was keeping ‘neutral’ at the moment.

Monday Nov 17

- Many church staff resigned. The office building seemed like an isolated city. Ps Nimit called the rest of the pastors for a meeting in the afternoon. To me, the task of 'rebuilding' the ruined city of 'Jerusalem' is very big and challenging.

Dec 12

- North America Churches releases Joint Statement
- Refer to Appendix 2

Dec 24

- Ps PK from London issues his letter of opinion
-Refer to APPENDIX 3

Dec 31
- FOUNATION waiting for HGI decision
- PS PN declares his SOLE VISION FOR 2009 to WIN back all the other churches
- ASK HOPE CHIANGMAI pastor to step down so he can take over
- PN believes he is still the HIGHEST AUTHORITY
- PN sends us people to try and convince other people to join his CHURCH

1st WEEK OF JAN 2009

- HGI will step down PS PN as president and step down DR.J as the Advisor
- HGI issues official statement that they will take neither but hopes to reconcile both parties
- HGI will elect own elders and leaders to lead the international Churches


- Personally though PN’s action shows absolute DOUBLE STANDARD, which I if necessary can prove with his teaching and the actions that he did
- We were always taught never to split and if we leave church never to bring other church members with you.
- ASK PN … about those Pastors both in HGI and Thailand when the left church what he ALWAYS TELL US.



1) The split in this case is illegal because practically it means he is using the name of Hope Church but not bringing the offering money into the church account, but telling people a new account number which is a private account and cannot be allowed.
2) Anyone has full right to leave Hope Church and set up new church, but cannot do what he likes with the church money; they put the money in Dr Suthit and other 2 people's names. Dr Suthit is the secretary to the Thai Future O--(something - I can't remember) foundation; they have set up a political party with the same name.
3) The 4 staff who were sacked (including Ps Yongyuth): They have done things that are illegal, using their position as staff of the Hope Foundation. On this, RB listened to us and will be trying to help us cope with the effect. She said that Ps Yongyuthcame to see her already, but the report he gave her was not solid enough to proof that he really had no intention to ignore the role of MD. However, we tried our best to convince her and make her have full understanding about Ps Yongyuth's work style and situation. (By the way, to the conversation I had with you last night, I though that you might have not full understanding about the role of the foundation; Ps Prakich may help explain to you as he had been working with RB in terms of protecting the church for quite a long time. Also, Ps David Chen could give you the full picture of the situation).

Other updates are as below:
1. As it seemed that Ps PN 'discredited' RLs in some meetings last week (at least 3 times Hope provincial leaders meeting, private meeting with DL/SDL, U student service), some DLs/SDLs had attitude and action 'against' RLs. They even told one another not to talk to their RLs. Some of them are no longer under RL covering / don't submit to their RL. Some of them event told their people to join SS at another center (not joining their original center).
2. From (1), the DLs/SDLs told their people that RLs didn't submit to Ps PN. They even blamed and spreaded rumors that RB was fighting against the authority in unbalancing way. They thought that RB was trying to suppress Ps PN.
3. Due to the announcement - sacking the 4 staff, some staff felt insecure and had been thinking to resign from the foundation.
4. There were 'ABUSES' of the biblical principles. During last two weeks, there came many lessons distributing out to the CH members. Some points were 'twisted' to support their thought.

For example,

in MARK 13:9-12: they claimed that RB was 'handing over' brothers and sisters to the court. But to 12the context, the Bible is telling us about persecution of the gospel preaching. They didn't balance another principle that Christian should submit to the government as long as the law is not against God's principle, and have no right to violate the law. To clear up such an issue, my energy was consumed to the point of 'death'! 5. To the pastor's personal issue, I'll try to arrange skype meeting between you and the relevant leaders. As for the evidence, the leaders are collecting, but not complete yet as we are not professional though. For the question you asked why we dare not to talk to the pastor directly, PsPrakich can give you the answer. Besides, I'm not sure if I am right - if you can remember the situation happened 18 years ago, there was an attempt to tell some higher leaders of their faults, but those persons were exiled from the church consequently. On the top of that, to the stories I heard, anyone who knew about the high-ranked leaders' fault (secret), he might either been removed from their spiritual position or sent to serve elsewhere (but still in Hope).

You might think if I am quite 'negative'. Anyhow, to be honest, the surrounding evidences I've found really convince me that my assumption is true. Actually, if you seek for the truth in other areas of Hope Bangkok, behind a nice image you were told, you might see unexpected/unbelievable things which you could never imagine. Someone who has been with the church for a long time like Ps Prakich or Ps David Chen could tell you some of their experiences. By the way, I learn to keep close to God and understand that no one, including me, is perfect. Please be assured that I still love them, as Jesus loves me and is always patient with my faults with hope in me.

Yesterday: Thai RMCs (who are now downplayed already) and provincial leaders came to Bangkok to listen to Ps PN according to his invitation. In the morning, RLs had a meeting with Thai RMCs (20-30 persons approx.) sharing that some of their provincial leaders no longer listened to them. We prayed together. After that, I was asked to share with them the situation in order (you can be assured and see from the video that I didn't talk anything negative against anyone - just told them the story.) Later, Ps Nimit came and also shared with them the whole thing since the beginning of the story (he had been working with DJ for the campaign before resigning due to stress; he is an executive in board of directors – Hope Bangkok elder; he is the foundation's executive committee). I couldn't remember all, but the key points were: 1. Since RB was appointed by Ps PN to oversee the finance thing (replacing Ps ST) in the early of the year, she has been working hard to manage the budget thoroughly to support every project, including SD. She kept warning both the BOP and BOD several times to spend the money carefully. However, it seemed that her actions might displease someone. With no other choice, to protect the church/the 13 foundation from being closed down and defiled, she had to release the 18-page announcement to the church.

Due to the dissatisfaction of someone, it was said in the BOP (DJ, JB, PN, SN, ST and NM; RB wasn't there) that RB was rebellious (Please verify with Ps Nimit directly). It was even said that 'we have to 'remove' RB'. In the afternoon, there was a meeting which Ps PN called the provincial church to attend. At first, they didn't allow the Thai RMCs to join. However, they opened the door for them later. BUT, they didn't allow RB and her team who were also there to enter the door or say anything. It was told by Sis Sukanya that Ps PN 'discredited' Ps Chuchart in the meeting (you can ask Prakich to verify with Sis Sukanya). In the evening, there was another meeting allowing all Hope Bangkok members to join. It was stated 'clearly' that they wouldn't allow anyone to defend or clarify anything; just listened! (Ps David and Ps Chin were also there - this time RB and her team were allowed to enter the meeting room.)
Here below is the story in sequence:
1. Ps Rungson shared the word of God regarding 'Authority' and 'Unity'. At the end of his session, he justified why he thought RB's practice is unbiblical.

2. Ps Somthob clarified the charges: He gave introduction that what he was doing was according to an agreement of the movement. (I can't hear the whole thing as people were packed and I had to stand outside the room. On the top of that, his voice was so soft.) To me, he clarified the charges by only his word, but no solid evidence. Though he showed us pictures of gold bars, and some purchasing documents, BUT there was no proof if all the gold bars really belong to the church. Moreover, he didn't say if the charge is 'true' or 'false'; rather, he used words like 'not exactly true'.

3. Ps PN shared his heart with the members: He started with atmosphere of 'spiritual warfare', which satuarated in every part of Thailand at the moment. He said that such a war also penetrated into the church. He never saw any kind of atmosphere before - then starting to 'discredit' RLs and Thai RMCs that he gave them (including me) opportunity to serve God, preached the word of God to them and support them; how come the betrayal happened! He blamed, but not directly, that 'someone' (means 'RB') caused the church to be in the war, causing disunity in the church of Jesus. Ps PN also mentioned that leaders at my center (PahonYothin) threatened him that 'no one could guaranteed his safety if he preached there.' He said that his mouth was shut by someone from announcing anything to his members; He even mentioned about the meeting he had with you, RB,Nimit and YY that the meeting was good, but someone shut his mouth from saying anything (BUT he didn't tell the member that the announcement couldn't be released as he didn't specify clearly 'who would take responsibility to bring back the money'!). He said that atmosphere in the church is no longer livable, lacks of love, etc. To my view, I sensed that he was trying to 'conceal' the truth from members and 'cover the issue under the carpet', while throwing the faults to others. At the end, he announced that he appointed Ps Rungson to be executive pastor over Hope of Bangkok church. (But he didn't say if he would be in any position.) RLs who were there last night were so crushed and disappointed. We still didn't know what would happen to us. My husband was accused that he spreaded out 'negative rumor' to members. I was thinking that if you told Ps PN that you heard the story from me, he even might reply you that I reported the thing out of my 'bitterness' (coz my husband was accused; I was blamed that I did something against him, not support him and pressured him, etc.)

1. Someone (can't remember who?) told me and some RLs that there has been an attempt to register another foundation under EFT(Thailand) named 'Hope of God Church Foundation'. Yet, not sure if it has been done successfully.

2. Members are under confusion if Ps PN is still the pastor over Hope Bangkok, or he resigned and appointed Ps Rungson to replace him. Anyway, many members have decided to follow Ps PN.

3. Many members have questioned why Ps PN didn't let Sis RB to defend or clarify the fact she had, because at that night (Nov 11), RB was also there and had evidence in her hand.

4. It seems that Ps Rungson is making an effort to have RB talk with DJ and JB. The following is a text message Sister Pattama (Rungson's PA) sent to me: "A.RS would like to consult A.RB. I can't contact Pi J or Dr Jintana (RB's PA)". However, at the moment, none of the RLs believe that Ps Rungson is neutral', and we don't think he couldn't settle the issue with justice. (Some RLs went to a meeting Ps Rungson called last Tuesday. They sensed that it was no use because Rungson and his team just put an effort to 'compromise', but not to really clear up the issue.

5. As attached, please find Ps PN's statement on Nov 11; you may need Ps Prakich to help translate.Anyhow, there are some points I thought he and Ps Rungson, though with unconsciousness, didn't tell the 'truth' to the members. I will send my points to Ps Prakich and ask him to translate into English.

6. Some RLs joined Cindy Jacobs' conference. They're greatly amazed that what Cindy said is 'exactly true' according to the church situation. I'll try to get the video clip and send to you later.


Joint Statement of Hope of God North America

This statement is written because no clarifications from the elders have been received as requested in the first letter.

Hope of God North America Churches are proud to be a part of the Hope of God Family. We are committed to the thorough teachings of the Scriptures. We uphold that the
Scripture has the absolute authority in the Church, and all levels of leaders and members must submit to it. We are also committed to fulfill the Great Commission of the Lord
Jesus Christ in Mt 28:18-20, that is to build strong and biblical churches in North America and all over the world.

We have been troubled with the situation in Hope Thailand. We are very concerned about the development over the past few months. We have found that several serious allegations on the 18-page statement by Mrs. Rubina Suwanapong are valid. There are clear evidences of the misuse of the Church offering funds (to support the founder’s political campaign) under the supervision of Ps. Somthop who had been responsible for the Church finance. Some of Hope of Bangkok leaders abused their authority. Under the leadership of the Senior Pastor, Ps. ..., some top Church leaders used authority to command hundreds of members to transfer their names and addresses from other provinces to the election district in Bangkok to vote for our founder, Dr. Joseph. These transfers were a violation to the election law of Thailand.

There are also proofs that hundreds of leaders and members of Hope of Bangkok Church were involved in worshipping idols. These leaders and members were asked to represent our founder, Dr. Joseph, by offering funeral wreaths on his behalf at various funerals held in temples throughout Bangkok. These leaders and members were asked to light joss sticks and worship idols in those funerals in order that outsiders would not know they
were Christians. This was done to increase popularity for our founder and to help him get more votes but caused Church leaders and members involved to sin against God. To mobilize the Church leaders and members of Hope Bangkok to be involved even more, Ps. ... allowed our founder’s secretary, Ps. Suthanee, to come to the Church leadership meeting and teach that worshipping idols is acceptable according to the Bible.

The Bible clearly states in Deuteronomy 5:7, 32:16 that God’s people must not worship or serve idols. Those who commit this SIN rebel against God and break their covenant
with Him.

Regarding the money issue, we believe that according to the Bible, we are all stewards of God’s money and properties. We are accountable to one another, to our members, to our peers, to our leaders, and ultimately to God. We believe that transparency is central to good stewardship. The Church should have a complete annual report of all budgeted funds, both incomes and expenses, and must be willing to give to any member who requests for it.

Leaders of Hope North America have agreed that the allegations are very serious and would like to address our concerns as follows:

1. According to the first statement of HGI dated Nov 15, 2008, Ps. Simon Eng wrote, “Ps. ... claimed to have expressed his sadness at the current situation and will take
responsibility as the pastor of the Church...” Leaders of Hope of God North America would like to ask Ps. ... (the President of HGI) and Ps. Somthop (the treasurer of HGI)
to temporarily step down only for a time for clarification purpose (not official function). This would help both Ps. ... and Ps. Somthop to focus on clearing the allegations on the
18-page statement. This will also help to restore the credibility of HGI elders to lead Hope of God International movement.

2. We suggest an outside mediator (not from Hope movement and must be agreed upon by parties involved) for reconciliation.

3. We seek clarifications from HGI elders and RMCs regarding the standpoint on the issues of idol worship, illegal political involvements in the past, and also future political involvement of HGI to support our founder, Dr. Joseph.

4. We seek explanations and reasons of the fund transfer in the amount of 10 million baht from the HGI account in Malaysia to Hope Bangkok only two days before the election as stated in the 18-page statement by Mrs. Rubina Suwanapong.

5. We seek disclosure of accounting records of HGI, particularly how much of HGI funds had been used to support the political campaign of our founder, Dr. Joseph, in the past three years.

We are aware of the validity and seriousness of the allegations and would like to seek clarifications from Ps. ... and Ps. Somthop. A few weeks ago, we sought explanations from Ps. ... via e-mail, but have not yet received any response from him. We do not intend to cause any disunity among Hope of God International Churches.

With much respect and understanding, we genuinely hope that these requests and future actions will not be misunderstood. We would like to hear from HGI by Dec 31st, 2008. We regret being straightforward; however, we are reminded of what Apostle Paul had taught Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:19-20: “Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.”


William Ao (Hope of God Vancouver - Canada)
Jirote Bongkotmart (Hope of God Seattle)
Grace McFeely (Hope of God Minneapolis)
David Nattawut (Hope of God Chicago)
Chai Opartkiettikul (Hope of God Los Angeles)

December 12, 2008


PK’s Personal Opinion on Dr. J & Ps. P N
in relation to the Current situation in Hope Thailand

I have prayerfully considered the current situation in Hope Thailand and I offer the following opinion:

When I first heard about the church split in Hope Thailand in November, my first thought was reconciliation. That is what Jesus died for. I have loved the Hope Of God Movement since Day 1 (Oct. 1993), because I havealways believed it to be a Biblical church founded by a Teaching Apostle Dr. Joseph. I gave up my high flying career in Hong Kong to pursue a career of doing God’s will, as powerfully portrayed by the Founder (although I have never regretted doing it, even now).When I have gathered more facts about the circumstances that led to the current dire situation in Hope Thailand, I feel violated and deceived by the top leadership whom I
have always loved and trusted.

I have lost my complete respect and trust of Ps. P N for the following reasons:
1) As the President of the HOG Movement, he is given the divine authority to lead and govern with purity and integrity. When someone in that position has committed sexual adultery consistently over a number of years, whilst preaching the Word of God every week, the person has clearly lost the sensitivity to the Holy Spirit and the conviction of sin.

2) When he was confronted with evidences of his ill conduct and was forced to admit the sin, he chose to split the church in order to safeguard his own position. I have lost my respect and trust of Dr. J for the following reasons:
1) He pursues a career in politics against all odds:
a) He separated from the wife when she disagreed with his career in politics. His own teaching below (on A Family Church) admitted the value of his wife’s opinion.

“The point is very clear that husbands must take the leadership. However, good leaders are those who listen to people under their care. Good leaders are more than

willing to listen and humble themselves in order to do whatever is God’s best. When I say lead, I don’t mean despotism. Very often, wives have great opinions that are truly from God. Husbands should have very big ears! They should listen with respect. I can say with all honesty that many times my wife’s advice has saved my neck. She is a woman of great wisdom. She may not be as “intelligent” as I am, but she is much wiser! I know that it behoves me to listen very carefully. Typically I invite her opinion, even provoke it out of her if I have to, because I consider it of immense value. What a wife says deserves careful and prayerful consideration before God and in the Word. We must have the courage to listen, but also to act, so we don’t end up pushing all the decision-making onto her. In any case, if the Holy Spirit is leading in your home, I suspect husband and wife will agree most of the time anyway. Only in exceptional circumstances does the husband have to take a definite lead in a way that
he really feels is God’s direction.”

Although Dr. J considers his wife to be a woman of great wisdom (in his own words), he clearly felt it was God’s direction for him to move in politics, to the extent of willing
to separate from the wife.

b) His older son Paul is at a lost of what the father is up to, whilst the younger son Pete is under the care of a surrogate mum Sis. Sutanee. The family is broken.

c) He compromised God’s principle of “there shall be no other gods before me” when he practiced Buddhist rituals.

d) There has been no success in the many years of his political career. Would God not bless him if it is God’s will?

e) No 21st century politician in a democratically elected government has the freedom and clout to preach Jesus as the only way to heaven, when the political world is
moving in the direction of a One-World Government and a One-World Religion.

2) I heard from Ps. Prakich that Dr. J maintains that as long as Ps. P N has repented,he should be allowed to continue in his current senior role. How can Ps. P N lead the Movement in his unrestored condition?

3) Dr. J is not accountable to anyone.

In Conclusion:

In Hope, we are taught a lot about submitting to leaders and divine authority. It is Bibilcal and I subscribe to it fully that divine authority is a blessing. But, in my personal opinion, both men have lost that authority when they follow their own way, instead of God’s way. I do not think both Dr. J and Ps. P N understand the hurt and betrayal they
have caused to their flock, many of whom have forsaken everything to serve under their leadership. The covering that Dr. J claimed to provide to the Movement is frankly not credible and full of holes.

In my personal opinion, both leaders are no longer men of honour and integrity, and both have broken their covenant with the rest of the Hope Family.

If Ps. P N still considers himself a Christian, he would take the honorable step to apologize to the membership and step down from leading Hope of God International and allow himself to be restored.

Humbly in Christ,
24th Dec., 2008