Friday, July 31, 2009
-If the pastor admits his mistake should he continue to serve in a leadership capacity without proper restoration ?
- Does everyone think then in PN's case and what he said that He is divinely appointed is reasonable ?
- So how should we help the person involved ? His wife and the third party ?
Unfortunately, Mr PN is not willing to give up, he has tried to email and called people to sway them and telling them half-truth. I know of leaders who have personally received email from Mr.PN telling them that he is still the head of HGI and what we did was wrong, he mislead alot of leaders and because our leaders from HGI have been very nice and not said much and tries to play it down, PN used this opportunity to spread confusion among the people.
I suppose my blog is also my own personal opinion of the person whom i used to look up to, I look at his twitter, blog and website and sometimes I just like to point out the irony of what he is trying to do.
Maybe I would also post questions than people can also give their opinion
Last week, we covered the Need for Biblical Accountability. In this post, we bring you Part 2 of 3 on this subject written by James Loke.
Who Do Leaders Account To?
Leadership accountability involves three spheres:
To Senior Leadership
Leaders have to account to those over them, other more senior leaders or if no one else, God Himself. The concept of accountability in this sphere is straightforward, like that of every believer who accounts to the Lord after this life (1 Th 5:12-13). There is a major difference in operation as the Lord knows everything about our stewardship but the senior leader may not. Accountability would require the leader to tell his senior leader relevant information in his life and ministry that would help the senior leader to oversee him effectively (Heb 13:17). Even a leader may have blind spots and a senior leader, who is more matured and experienced in life and ministry, would help the former do the work of the ministry more fruitfully. An important example of top leadership accountability is seen in the life of Moses who was publicly rebuked and judged by God in Num 20:11-12.
In the New Testament, leadership is always plural. This is demonstrated by elders operating in plurality in the New Testament churches, with other elders in the same local church or with elders in other churches. No leader was exempt from having to account to his peers. At the highest level of apostleship, Peter was still accountable to Paul. Paul had no qualms to rebuke him regarding segregating himself away from the Gentiles in the presence of Jews (Gal 2:11-14). Gal 6:1-2 holds us responsible to be our brother’s keeper.
Church members have willingly placed themselves under the leadership. Leaders owe it to followers to regularly communicate where and how they are leading them. There is clear evidence that the apostles practiced this. In Acts 6, the apostles were accountable to the believers for the running of the church and came up with a novel idea of administration by a new team of deacons when their time conflicted with other priorities of prayer and ministry of the Word. In Acts 11, Peter explained to the believers why he visited Cornelius, a Gentile. Paul and Barnabas gave an account of their missionary journey to the church at Antioch (Acts 14:26-27).
Accountability in this sphere should not be misunderstood that the leaders are subservient to the followers. The accountability of the leaders to the followers arises from a partnership in serving God together. However, the leaders and the followers have distinct roles in this partnership with leaders leading.
How Accountability Works
Many churches have built-in accountability structures. These structures do have some effectiveness but accountability works best when the leader himself has the right internal makeup.
Accountability works best with good relationships. When Adam was having his walks with God in the evenings, he probably discoursed with God all he needed to tell His maker regarding his stewardship of the Garden of Eden. There was no need to invite God, the shareholder, for an Annual General Meeting to report on the fruitfulness in the Garden. When we have close relationships with those around us, we will not fear being judged by them.
Accountability provides both needed discipline and support for the leader. The leader knows that whatever he does will affect others and he may have to give an answer, explicitly or implicitly. He may be evaluated by his superiors, challenged by his peers, or asked for an answer by his juniors. Accountability can be a support system because when accountability is functioning properly superiors can give better advice with better knowledge, peers can chip in to shoulder issues when needed, and juniors know how they can help support the leader for best results.
….. to be continued in the next post.
We thank Ian Foley, Prakich Treetasayudh and Wilson Lim who provided valuable comments to an earlier draft of this article.
Monday, July 27, 2009
Before the original Hope... there was Original Coke. Then came Diet Coke and Coke 0. My point : Sometimes, things need to develop so we can enjoy more variety. Original recipe is good but I do like my KFC Hot and Spicy too...
I suppose its normal for them to prove a point.. I will not disagree they started Hope... but now i want "New Hope"
Celebrate the 28th Anniversary ‘The Original Hope’
This September we will have an opportunity really thank God for all that he has brought our family through in the past 28 years. Even though the past few months may have seemed rough, but we know that God kept us and He will continue to keep us, that is why this September we will be celebrating ‘The Original Hope’
For almost a number of years, there have been a systematic removal of his name from Hope Archive. Books about him, or tapes with him preaching have to be returned to Bangkok.
And I am not sure if anyone notice. Pastor PN is now called Ps Joseph. This seemingly innocent switch hides a bigger motive.
Because Ps Joseph name is well known previously in the christian circle and if you type up a number of website. A lot of the christian database lists a Ps Joseph as the founder of the Hope of God movement.
I wonder if the main reason for Ps PN to adopt the name Joseph has something to do with Dr. Jospeh Kreigsak the actual founder of hope movement.
You begin to wonder why there is so much secrecy regarding this previous man of God Dr Joseph Kreingsak and why is he so ashamed to be associated with the people of God to the extent that he has to try and erase his name from our church history.
Maybe its his life, maybe they is a deeper reason for this. Lets not forget, up till now PN and DrJ have never once admitted what they did was wrong and ungodly.
Lets not be deceived. I really hope one day the people in Thailand can see who they are.
In the words of the rapper eminem.. "let the real Jospeh please stand up.... "
Friday, July 24, 2009
I read with interest comments posted on PN's blog in regards to all the allegations about him and what he did.
I can tell u now, that all the allegations about finance, adultery, idolatory and issues unbecoming of a christians are true. PN will not deny it, even Somthop did not deny it. Its recorded in a video published by Rubina. PN also has a youtube video in Thai, which he never and will not admit his wrong doings except that we have to abide by Divine Authority.
Remember friends Divine Authority is not a given right, if you abuse the authority given to you then you forfeit that authority.
Trust me PN will not say anything about the allegations because it is true. In fact, the lady who he had an affair with have physical evidence of SMS to prove it. Unfortunately, i cannot reveal her name for reasons I am sure we understand. But those who have seen it we cannot deny it.
So, never be hoodwinked. All PN is after is money to finance Dr Dan can do Campaign.
The last few decades have seen the rise of many gifted church leaders who have successfully grown large churches. Their successes have resulted in huge amounts of trust placed on them. They operate as senior leaders in local churches with sole authority in many instances. Unfortunately, some of them have fallen into sin. This has given rise to greater attention to the issue of accountability. In this post, we bring you Part 1 of 3 on this subject written by James Loke.
Biblical accountability is universal. Every Christian, after his life on earth, will account to the Lord Jesus regarding his stewardship of the gifts, talents and all that was entrusted to him in his lifetime.
Accountability comes with the role of Christian leadership. Those who take up Christian leadership embrace a responsibility to serve the Lord together with those they are serving with. The leader, implicitly or explicitly, can expect his life and actions to become fair game for public scrutiny. It is also expected of him to explain his decisions and actions if called upon to do so. In other words, a Christian leader has to be accountable by embracing responsibility, being transparent and answerable.
In this context, accountability is more than responsibility. For example, a care group leader can be responsible and finish all the tasks assigned to him but he may not be too concerned about how the work is done nor how it is viewed by others. One can be responsible yet not accountable. Accountability is an individually held sense of duty to account to others for one’s assignments.
The Need for Accountability
Fallen man is self-centred
The sinful nature causes humans, including Christians, to possibly make selfish decisions. It is not natural for fallen man to decide for the collective good; he has to change his paradigm for decision-making to make good decisions as a leader. Accountability encourages the leader to make decisions that would benefit the overall community since he has to be responsible for them, and accountability ensures trust which fosters unity and confidence.
Fallen man needs checks and balances
Fallen man can be tempted to wander from righteous principles, resulting in an abuse of authority. Lord Acton once said, “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Leaders are likely to have their own biases and deficiencies. In addition to the Holy Spirit who guides spiritual leaders, checks and balances could take the form of organizational accountability structures, or godly mentors and peers.
God made men to work in teams
It is in God’s order that He invests different yet complementary gifts in leaders in the church so that they work best as a team. The Ephesians 4 ministry gifts are five-fold in nature, the Holy Spirit sovereignly dispenses nine spiritual gifts to different believers in 1 Corinthians 12, and various other gifts to different ones in Romans 12.
God’s idea is for plurality in leadership so that they can sharpen one another. “As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.” (Proverbs 27:17) Even godly leaders do need some help. In a local church, a gifted teacher may emphasize too much on studying the Bible at the expense of winning lost souls. But when that teacher is partnered with an evangelist, the burden of winning lost souls is transmitted to the congregation as well.
….. to be continued in the next post.
We thank Ian Foley, Prakich Treetasayudh and Wilson Lim who provided valuable comments to an earlier draft of this article.
Thursday, July 23, 2009
To highlight my point, if you ever read Mr PN's blog,
Taken from his excerpt
"Even though I am sad to accept their decision, I will not be disheartened. I want you to be clear that if you want to join the church that belongs to Hope of God family,under the spiritual covering of the founder, you need to come out to join the HG Ichurches that I and HGI believers all over the world will start in the near future
I have highlighted in red Spiritual covering of the founder. Ok who is this founder that HGI is proposed to be under. His name is Dr.J the divine head of the Hope movement. He is the Brother-in-law of Mr PN. He was the man who appointed Mr PN to succeed him so he can move behind the scene
Now, if we join Mr PN to be under the covering of Mr PN and ultimately Dr.J the man who apparently could absolve Mr PN's sin and asked to continue running Hope movement and the man whose own personal life was disputed by his very own wife who he has separated from.
Now, Dr.J was suppose to be " an apostle" a highly annointed person, who was suppose to also have a strong christian family. But.. now we know , his wife separated from him because he did want to listen to her and continue in his pursuit of his political ambition at the cost of his faith and family. He would pray to idols to appease and try to win votes, he would use our church money to finance his political ambition. Apparently, all the projects Dr.J ever started all lost money, and that is why he had to borrow from Hope Churches to finance his past election campaign - " even though i must add its illegal under thai election law." ( The case is still being investigated)
This is the apostle, our Hope movement have been under all these years. Now they are asking us to join them ?? Well, the key reasoning is we are a family... mmmm... unfortunately even though i have been in Hope more than 10 years, i am not Pro-Hope. I am Pro Jesus...
A movement is always fallible, and imperfect but God is not. When we join a church, it shoud be for the betterment of the kingdom, where churches should work together as much as we can to bring the lost to God.
Under PN and Dr.J it was always a us and them theory. Under PN and Dr.J we seldom every invite outside speakers only on rare occasion. we seldom join in Christian organised events with other churches.
From Ps Simon blog, i do think this is going to change which i believe would be a great thing for the new HIM churches.
Lets be Pro God... and not be tied down by our past. Be wary of PN and Dr.J
Monday, July 20, 2009
I know from someone that PN has got some contacts in US, which he plans to start Hope Church under HGI banner.
So if you hear anything from PN, please make sure you talk to your leaders in H.I.M to get a better picture before making any decision.
Saturday, July 18, 2009
I have no doubt they know the bible, but the problem with living in sin and walking in sin, is that many topics cannot be fully expressed. Example is the teaching on Divine Authority . I have an IPC actually taught by Mr PN and Dr.J which they shared that authority is not a given right but one that God gave because of the person's life. We have to always first function in the role before the title can be given and if we are unfaithful the annointing will be taken from us.
Leadership roles comes with responsiblity. A person cannot commit adultery, misappropriate finance, teach people to pray to other Gods and split the church. And yet think that they still have the preceived authority from God. The truth is Annointing and leadership have to be earned and this is only happens when a person walks with God
I just think they Mr PN and Dr.J have walked so far from God and done so much sin that they have become numb to the holy spirit. I am always reminded by the story of Solomon, he was a good king, but as he grew older his heart started to draw away from God into the arms of his many wives and concubines. And as he started to sin, God tore the kingdom away from him.
This story so much mirrors what we have now, I believe everything that happens, happens for a reason and God would have allowed it because He needed to preserve the integrity of the Church. If My PN and Dr.J is trying to mislead the people in H.I.M , i just don't think it is going to work.
People in power seems to think that its a given right to them and this authority never be taken away no matter what they do. True the bible days we should always obey our leaders, but let me paraphase one of Mr PN fav quote, we should always obey the leader's, "In the lord" not apart from it. Thus we have to be careful, we do not follow unrighteous leader
What God gives, he can take and if we fight against the will of God, we will surely fail.
I do not fully know Mr PN and Dr.J intention but all i can say is their hope of restoring their position and trying to get back the Hope church internationally has more to do about pride, money and power, rather than any other reason.
Friday, July 17, 2009
I have every intention to finish off the Video presentation of the evidence regarding his misuse of power, adultery, finance and also idolatory issue.
The video was in Thai and its not easy to finish translating. But if Mr PN intends to take his issue international. I would be more than happy to provide video evidence.
I will not allow him to smear our HIM leaders name., if Mr PN has the guts to do what he does.. then he should stand in front of ALL the HIM members and answer our questions.
If he is innocent why hide behind and get his lackey to do his dirty work and go behind the scene to get people ???
Where is PN ??
Thursday, July 16, 2009
Below is the Blog from Ps PN regarding HGI Leaders's decision to split from Hope
I have added my own comments in red... just for dramatic effect...
"At this stage, you may not be able to sense any difference in the church you attend today, as the departure of the former HGI churches took place only a few months ago; however you will witness a huge difference in the future.( Yes true... we will see a difference.. One whose leader have missued church finance to finance Politics which was illegal in Thailand. And the leader have a mistress ... mmmmmm..... of course we will see the difference ) And the future is so crucial for us because we journey to one destination which is to be part of the Bride of Christ" ( I think Jesus would want a bride that is clean, not one who is unrepentant and unwilling to be restored properly, I think Jesus would not one a bride who preach double std - one for Himself another for the church )
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
I am writing this letter to you in response to several inquiries I have received from
Hope of God International (HGI) church members worldwide regarding the status of
the ex-HGI churches. Though the leaders of former HGI churches – now renamed as
Hope International Ministries (HIM), have clearly stated their separation from HGI
leadership via their website, they have probably not communicated much to you of
what has been going on. As they also will not have explained to you in detail about
the procedures that HIM leaders used in their decision to separate from HGI, I will
therefore take this opportunity to narrate some facts for your thoroughunderstanding
and perusal. ( Ok please note.. fact ... Everything here in his blog only tells stories.. but no physical evidence... Watch Rubina video of the serious allegation.. Prepared with evidence DOCUMENTS... and all.. here PN just talk )
From the beginning of Rubina’s serious allegations and consequent scandal that broke ( SEE , Nothing was ever mention here what the allegation was, if they are innocent why not stand before ALL THE HOPE PEOPLE instead of splitting the church ) in late October 2008, a series of interactions took place between Pastor Simon andmyself. Later on, following disagreement over how to deal with controversial issues atthat time, meetings were held in late December, 2008, between Pastor Simon, theAdvisor and other leaders in Bangkok. ( Here again vague, read my blog, with specific timeline and evidence. of proof)
After this Bangkok meeting, when issues remained in disagreement, the Advisor asked Pastor Simon and the RMCs to meet and discuss the unresolved issues, which led to another meeting that was scheduled forearly January, 2009 between the RMCs, the Advisor, myself and other leaders inBangkok.
However, instead of following the biblical approach to disagreement resolution, as
reiterated by the Advisor, in accord with Acts 15, in which the Bible and its principles
are upheld as the referee and if no agreement can be reached, there are further talks
until the leading of the Lord is clear and a consensus reached, the RMCs chose to act
otherwise. The ex HGI leaders sent a letter to the Advisor on the 24th December 2008
indicating their unilateral decision on the disputed matters. ( Let me put this clearly - PN used Simon's first letter to stat HGI support of his action. But Ps Simon came out another letter. PN was the one WHO SPLIT HOPE ... you can watch the Video of his 1st sermon in I think one of the Hope worship centre, where he told people he was going to split the church... He TOOK the tithes for himself and never gave it to Hope FOundation who rightfully was the one to hold the money. - Now who is rebellious ?? )
This letter came in spite of the fact that the Advisor had invited both Pastor Simon and the RMCs to come and discuss the unresolved matters in person in January. Anyway, regardless of their decision, the Advisor still invited them for a meeting in mid January. ( PN asked us to choose side... Mr PN or Rubina.. HGI to avoid any infighting decided to come out so that they will not involve with the reglious politics happening Thailand)
When this discussion took place on the unresolved issues, they insisted on upholding
their own previously agreed to, so called, “HGI Constitution,” or code of ethics as
their ground rules. These discussions thus rested on different platforms, resulting in
no unanimity. Even so, the Advisor (I BELIEVE Advisor is Dr.J )asked them to come back for further discussion so that everyone concerned could contemplate more on what a biblically-principledsolution should be, so that we could remain in unity and peace and proceed on.
The ex HGI leaders did not propose any further talks, but chose to write letters to each of the leaders in Bangkok. They wrote a letter to myself, removing me from my
responsibility as the President of HGI. A similar letter was sent to Pastor Somthob,
suspending his responsibility until the arbitrarily set up investigation committee
finished its investigation of scandals on financial matters. A letter was written to the
Advisor, indicating their arbitrary removal from his apostolic leadership. They did not
agree with the Advisor’s biblical standpoint on various matters. Even though they
could not find any biblically-principled fault in him, they used excuses to disqualify
the Advisor as their spiritual covering. ( Evidence ??? mmmm... Was PN so blinded... ohh.. yes.. Advisor was the brother-in-law.... how conincidental... Evidence was put in plain sight by Rubina... with FULL VIDEO disclosure... need more ... evidence... what other evidence... ??)
Their decision was made in spite of a reminder message from the Advisor that a spiritual bond can be compared to that of a natural family in relationship. ( This seems to be Mr PN and Dr J's fav line... BUT... who should we obey ?? God.. or them...I somehow seem to remember... that we were told to always obey God... esp if the Natural have broken God's law. )
Though children may want to deny their natural parents, reality speaks otherwise. The relationship cannot be cancelled as they wish. Their parents are still their parents regardless of the parents’ presence or absence from the children. ( My Spiritual parent is God... mmmm... so this relationship cannot be broken... but... I am not Dr.J or Mr PN's children.. thank God...)
All HGI leaders are well aware that Hope of God Movement came into existence due
to the call of God on the ministry of the apostle. Hope of God movement therefore
believes in the spiritual covering of the apostle ( Only if the apostle is still an apostle, even apostle can be disqualified if they sin against God - This apostle separate from his wife, he took church money to fund his ambitions and ask people to pray to idols... mmmm) , and that as long as he still avails himself to the movement ( ahhh.. no mention of lifestyle.. apparently now its leadership based on availability .. what happen to holiness ?? - Please note Dr.J have not been atending since he left Hope to pursue his other interest... ) , we should be willing to remain under his covering, andmeanwhile be willing to submit to him. The ex HGI RMCs refuse to do so, however,and have arbitrarily declared their autonomy from the Advisor’s spiritual covering. ( Notice again... leadership based on seniority not holiness.. that is why the RMC's left... )
It has been a disheartening experience for me to see what has happened to the
building up of our former HGI churches, into which the Advisor and outstanding
leaders at Hope of Bangkok have poured their lives. It cannot be denied that Hope of
God movement came into existence from a vision given to a person who was obedient
to His call and served the Lord with His anointing as an apostle. The unilateral
decision by the RMCs has caused disunity in Hope family. As God promises his
blessings through unity, I think the ex HGI leaders have done a disservice to their
members because they have eroded some essential principles of the Kingdom of God,
which are submission to authority and unity. ( Personally I think the Ex HGI leaders did the right thing.. I will definitely leave HGI if they had followed leader's who just about broke every covenant of God's commandment. - Worship idol, Misuse of Church finance, Committed adultery, Lied about the situation, )
As you may have seen on the website of Hope International Ministries (HIM), the ex
HGI RMCs and Ps Simon have started a new movement that has nothing to do with
HGI. They have appointed leaders themselves with neither the consent nor blessing of their spiritual covering. This situation, alone, would be similar to that of a care leader resigning from the covering of his/her unit leader owing to a disagreement with the unit leader, and then re-appointing himself/herself to be the new unit leader, or else choosing another care leader to that position before setting up their own new
fellowship. But, wouldn’t such actions possibly amount to “rebellion?” ( Notice all this talk about rebellion..well i can say is yes !! we are rebellious, rebellious against unholiness and the unrighteous. Woudl that be wrong ?? If my leader sins and do not repent.. i would of course leave.. I do not want to be cursed by God )
Just imagine ifHGI’s ex-leaders some time afterward let their care leaders do likewise. Then asleaders in oversight, they would be unable to implement biblical spiritual authoritywith a good conscience and their teachings on divine authority would furthermore befutile. ( Divine authority ??? _ Divine authority is not given it has to be earned... somehow Mr PN seems to think he is MR annointed who have authority to do anything without consequence.. breaking God's law and splitting the church... mmm.... )
I want to stress my standpoint in serving the Lord, which is that I firmly believe in the
principle of spiritual authority, the delegation of spiritual authority, divineappointment and spiritual covering. I joined Hope movement due to the teaching andthe leading of apostolic ministry. I think that being submissive to apostolic ministry isessential in order to receive anointing and blessing from the Lord, and I have pledged myself to do so. ( I am sure everyone knows. that authority is earned by your life. Appointment given by God can be taken away if the person sins and do not repent... ) Eg.. Saul in the bible, Solomon whose Sin caused God to tear the kigndom away from his Son. Need i say more. What bible Mr PN is reading ?? HIT ( Hope International Translation ??? )
I want to remind you of the fact that when two lines depart from the same point, the
gap between those two lines may not be noticeable at the beginning, but the further
the lines go, the gap between them becomes wider and wider. At this stage, you may
not be able to sense any difference in the church you attend today, as the departure of
the former HGI churches took place only a few months ago; however you will witness
a huge difference in the future. And the future is so crucial for us because we journey
to one destination which is to be part of the Bride of Christ, which is a church that
grows unto the maturity of Christ, abiding by all the precepts of the Lord. Since HGI
and HIM disagree on theological matters and practices, if there is no turnaround in the position of HIM, we cannot pretentiously say that our churches are the same and that our destiny will merge eventually. ( HIM believes in righteousness, integrity and holiness.. i think in the long we will see the difference... of course... Mr PN believe in " I-can-do-anything and I-am-above God's law..... there is definitely a big ideological difference... Unfortunately if i have the opportunity i will let PN know.. i do not believe in Communisim and do not like to be ruled by a dictator with no regard for God's law)
I have grave concerns for your spiritual lives because I truly believe that the Church
of Jesus Christ needs to strictly uphold the principle of divine order and authority
because without this core principle and its practices, the Church will be no different to
other institutions in this fallen world and our effort to build His Kingdom will be in
vain. ( Aiiiiii... need i say more... all talk about divine... submission .. where is God ??? So sad... )
Even though I am sad to accept their decision, I will not be disheartened. I want you
to be clear that if you want to join the church that belongs to Hope of God family,
under the spiritual covering of the founder, you need to come out to join the HGI
churches that I and HGI believers all over the world will start in the near future
I therefore remain the leader of HGI, which includes Hope of Bangkok Church and
Hope churches in 70 provinces (out of 76 provinces) in Thailand and a few churches
outside of Thailand. We will not be discouraged by the adversity of the past, but will
continue on to serve the Lord with the mission to “Build strong biblical people, tobuild strong biblical churches in Bangkok, Thailand and the rest of the world.” WOW..... finally biblical... mmmm... I can tell everyone though.. in the HGI of Mr PN.. once you are a leader .. you can use the church money as you please, find another mistress, pray to idol to advance God's kingdom, have total disregard for the country's law as long as you think you are doing right.
In short HGI leader's motto : " Leadership has its privleges and no responsibility."
I am not perfect ( mmm.. aren't we all... i wonder why he did not mention what he did ) and I am fully aware that I need the amazing grace of God to help meto be a better person in Christ. However, I will not be bogged down by the devil with
discouragement and sorrow for the past but will continue on afresh in Him. My
aspiration to be transformed into the likeness of Christ never ceases. My pledge to
teach the Word of God, to live up to it and to serve Him grows even more in spite of
the disastrous events that we have encountered. I therefore want to reassure you of mycommitment to God and to you all to carry on the responsibility God has called me to,to lead the churches in Hope family unto the maturity of Christ.
If anyone of you want to discuss or enquire about further insights, please feel free to
contact me by email at firstname.lastname@example.org. ( Wow ... recruitment drive ... i am sure someone who loves leadership position and no responsibility will love to join..)
If you want me to come to see you in person, please also let me know. I will try to plan my overseas itinerary to visit youwhenever I can. You are also welcome to meet with me when you plan to visit
Your brother in Christ ( ??? Bro in christ ??? ) ,
They have website called welovepn... mmmm.. when has church become about a person ??? Idolatory ?
DrJ used to say sometimes people maybe sincere but they are often sincerely wrong. I hope the people who attend PN church know what type of leader he is.
No adulterer should ever lead a church without first being properly restored, so i do not understand how the people in Thailand would be so blinded.
And i will never stand idly by while MR PN try to destroy our HIM movement spreading lies upon lies.
I had wanted the matter to rest.. but obviously Mr. PN still misses our cash .... to support his and his brother-in-law lifestyle.
Been trying to find PN's english blog... obviously its not popular enough to be found online. If i do find... i will post it here. If anyone .. please let me know.
I dont want Mr. PN to lie to our members . And drag people away thinking that we did wrong.
So... the hornet nest is stirred... but Mr PN do not want it to rest... so... there some fights I will take up.. and this is one of them. The international leaders are good leaders and I will not standby while he says things about them...
If its the truth Mr PN wants then truth Mr PN will get.
The Return of Hope Church
In a short time the people of Hope will praise God, as he brings the international family back together. God is faithful, he will leave his sheep scattered, whether in the Americas, in Australia, in Europe, in Africa, and in Asia. Pastor NP and team stand ready for the task.
But from what i gather now from various friends in Thailand. PN have been trying to hoodwinked people to split from HIM and also trying to defame our leaders.
So its not we do not want to move on, but maybe PN finds the HGI money to much of an enticement to not do something to get some membership. Because all along before this thing blew up. HGI contributed a huge portion to PN and Dr.J, as you know international money is much stronger.
So looks like i woudl have to keep updating thigns in Thailand and around the world so that PN will not succeed in tearing HIM.
Below was a blog taken from HIM post. As i have expressed earlier, Ps PN have been trying to split the church internationally and trying to get people to align with him
I think it has become clear that PS PN is no longer a follower of Christ. Christ said before in the last days, many will call on him and in his names drive out demons but Christ say He does not know this people.
PN has officially done what no christians or bible-believing christian should Do. He say one thing and does another. I would not be surprised he is still in relationship with the other woman. Since this issue was never resolved properly.
How in the world - Can he still preach ???? Whatever he is doing now is no longer blibical. I am sure that is why God is tearing away the people from him. All the talks is power, authority and obedience without question
It sounds so much like a power hungry person. It scarily reminds me of Hitler, Napolean and Lenin. People who demands absolute loyalty without question, regardless of obedience to Bible.
I wonder do we obey Jesus or do we obey Ps PN ???
I really hope all Hope International People and those in Thailand be aware of the schemes of PN.
Personally, when a person is drunk with power, they often do not want to give it up so easily. Secondly i think its the money. With the split PN woudl have lost quite alot of revenue especially from the International churches to fund Dr J political ambition and his Salary.
Please be aware of his intentions and pass this on to people so they are well aware.
Below is from HIM blog :
Dear Members of HIM,
In late June, PN wrote to a number of people in HIM, alleging that leaders of HIM had left HGI in a wrong manner, and called on HIM members to re-join him. A blogspot in English reiterated the same message. PN has given incomplete information and also misrepresented the facts.
We parted with the former leadership of HGI for a few reasons:
- DJ and PN had disqualified themselves as elders according to biblical standards. PN was involved in adultery for an extended period of time. Efforts to have him fully restored were opposed by DJ. DJ separated from his wife, and encouraged various church leaders and members to participate in religious ceremonies for his political purposes, causing other believers to stumble;
- They were not accountable to other leaders and members, especially in the area of finance. There are still ongoing investigations by the Hope of Thai People Foundation, which is the legal entity of the original Hope of Bangkok, regarding the misuse of funds involving these leaders;
- They maintained that they had acted biblically when their actions showed otherwise.
The procedure of our parting may have surprised PN but we have good grounds to do so because:
- DJ himself asked us to choose whether we wanted to continue with him as the apostolic covering, although he tried to backtrack later;
- PN was removed as president and Somthob suspended as vice-president according to the procedure spelt out by HGI Licensing Policy that they had approved themselves together with other HGI elders. The reason was because PN no longer met the biblical criteria to be an elder.
PN also alleged that the present HIM leadership is improperly appointed. Actually the HIM leadership is no different from the old HGI leadership minus the top leaders who disqualified themselves. I was the remaining elder that was untainted in the whole saga following the allegations by Rubina about leadership improprieties in Bangkok in October 2008. Together with the then RMCs in HGI, I took the needed leadership in HGI. We then decided to break from the past and revamped organisationally by replacing HGI with HIM.
We are concerned that the true motive of PN is to split the existing HIM churches so that he can regain some members. We need to be aware of what has happened in Thailand since October 2008. After Rubina highlighted the misuse of funds in the Hope of Bangkok/Hope of Thai People Foundation, PN had little platform for ministry. On one occasion he was given a platform at the Windsor Hotel, Bangkok during which he managed to convince a portion of the daughter churches to come out of the Hope of Thai People Foundation umbrella.
He has continued this strategy in various forms all over Thailand. What used to be a unified family of Hope churches throughout Thailand is now fragmented into five or more groups. The church landscape in Thailand is a pitiful tragedy with brothers in Hope or ex-Hope churches fighting other brothers who used to worship together in the same church. In the midst of all this happenings, hundreds and perhaps thousands have stopped coming to church or moved to other (non-Hope) churches.
What PN is doing sounds too familiar for us not to raise the warning that he may very well attempt to do internationally what he did in Thailand. It is unusual for an outside party to write directly to you about your leaders bypassing and not even informing us. Regardless of his arguments, it seems obvious to us that he wants to have a direct communication with HIM members and very likely influence members or even leaders to leave existing HIM churches to join him.
If you have further questions, please talk to your pastor directly. Alternatively, you can write to our central HIM office through email@example.com. We have set up this new email address to address any issues and concerns you may have about PN’s actions.
Let us remain united together in HIM, and continue on the new chapter which we have established and are forging ahead to continue to plant churches and fulfil God’s Great Commission in our localities, countries and all over the world.
Pastor Simon Eng
As you might have heard, Hope International Ministries previously HGI have now established a blog to update us of future Movement update.
This is now the official HIM blog.. and the news on there will be our official news.
I will put up a link so anyone interested to find out more can go to the site.
God bless to all