Thursday, October 29, 2009

Bible Conference in Thailand

The bible conference attended by 2 HIM speakers for our HIM churches in Bangkok


The Core - คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์
แจ้งปรับกำหนดการเร็วขึ้น

8.00 - 8.30 ลงทะเบียนเข้าอบรม
8.30 เริ่มอธิษฐานและเข้าสู่โปรแกรมการอบรม

ขอให้พี่น้องทุกท่านที่เข้าอบรม พยายามมาก่อนเวลา
เนื่องจากจำนวนผู้เข้าอบรมในตอนนี้มีเพิ่มมากขึ้น
ที่นั่งอาจจะไม่เพียงพอได้

การมาก่อนเวลาจะทำให้ทีมงานได้จัดเตรียมอำนวยความสะดวก
ในเรื่องที่นั่งการเข้าอบรมให้พี่น้องได้ก่อนถึงเวลาจริง

ขอพระเจ้าอวยพระพรพี่น้องทุกท่านให้ได้รับพระพรสูงสุดจากการอบรม
"The Core-คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์"


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เรียนเชิญ พี่น้องคริสเตียนทุกท่าน

เข้าร่วมงานสัมมนาพระคัมภีร์ ในหัวข้อที่น่าสนใจและสำคัญมากๆสำหรับการดำเนินชีวิตคริสเตียน

"คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์"
วันศุกร์ที่ 23 ตุลาคม 2009 นี้ เวลา 8.30 - 17.30
และวันอาทิตย์ ที่ 25 ตุลาคม 2009 เวลา 13.30 - 16.00 น.

ณ คริสตจักรแห่งพันธสัญญา กรุงเทพ
อัตราค่าสมัคร 100 บาท

Bangkok, The Core 2009, Oct 23
" คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์ "


วิทยากรรับเชิญจากต่างประเท

Dr. Brendan Kirby


อ.ดร.เบรนดอน เคอบี้
ดร.เบรนดอน เป็นนักวิทยาศาสตร์(ฟิสิกส์) สังกัด กระทรวงกลาโหมของรัฐบาลออสเตรเลียในปัจจุบัน
นอกจากเป็น ศบ.คจ.ที่อดิเลย์แล้ว ข้อมูลอื่นๆ ของท่านดังนี้

Dr. Brendan Kirby is the pastor of church in Adelaide. Dr. Kirby was
born again in 1984. He joined in 1991 and started Church
in Adelaide in October 1998 with his wife Helen (whom he married in
1994). He overseas 7 churches in South Australia and Western
Australia (WA), and has been responsible for bringing some churches
in Liberia and in Democratic Republic of Congo into the Movement. He and Nigel
recently planted a church in Esperance. Brendan currently works
as a part time research scientist, 3 days a week, and serves as a
pastor in his remaining time.

Ps. Stephen Pitavanik


Pastor Stephen Pitavanik is the man of faith who has a strong vision to plant churches since year 1985. He has the gift of teaching the Word of God, in an expository manner. Through his ministry of teaching, God has transformed the hearts and lives of many.

He is also highly recognised for laying clear foundations and principles of Christian doctrines in people’s lives and to the church. Under his leadership, many leaders have been raised up to serve God together in a great unity.

He enjoys talking with people and makes them feel at home in the family of Perth. His pastoring heart shows to all in love and care for them holistically.

Pastor Stephen is a caring father and husband to his family. He and with his wife, Hannah, alongside with their two children, Joseph and Benjung, set the great example in serving God together actively reiterates Joshua 24: 15b “As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

อ.สิทธิพล ปีตะวนิค หรือ Pastor Stephen ในด้านการศึกษาพระวจนะ ท่านจบการศึกษาด้านศาสานศาสตร์และการรับใช้ระดับปริญญาตรีที่ Harvest West Bible College ณ เมืองเพิร์ธ ประเทศออสเตรเลีย และยังได้รับการอบรมหลักสูตรต่างๆทางพระคัมภีร์จากหลายสถาบันในเพิร์ธ เช่น Riverview Bible College, Western Australian Bible College และสมัยเป็นผู้เชื่อใหม่ในปี 1986 ได้เดินทางไปศึกษาพระคัมภีร์ที่รร.พระคริสต์ธรรม Tung Ling Bible College ประเทศสิงค์โปร์ หลังจากได้ศึกษาจบหลักสูตรเตรียมผู้รับใช้จากประเทศไทยในเวลานั้น ในด้านการรับใช้ อ.สตีเฟ่น มีประสบการณ์บุกเบิก และก่อตั้งคริสตจักรหลายแห่งในประเทศไทย และต่างประเทศ ในประเทศไทยเช่นบุกเบิกคริสตจักรในลำปาง สตูล หาดใหญ่ สุไหงโกลก เคยเป็นผู้นำดูแลกลุ่มคริสตจักรในเจ็ดจังหวัดภาคใต้ของประเทศไทย ปัจจุบันดำรงตำแหน่งเป็นศิษยาภิบาล (Senior Pastor) คริสตจักร Perth Christian Church, Australia ท่านเป็นผู้มีของประทานในการบุกเบิก วางรากฐานคริสตจักร และเทศนาเชิงอรรถาธิบาย โดยปรารถนาที่จะเห็นนิมิตรพระมหาบัญชาขององค์พระเยซูคริสต์สำเร็จในโลกในระยะเวลาอันใกล้นี้


PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND :
1) Export Promotion Manager of President Agri Trading Co.,Ltd. Thailand (Saha PattanaPibul Interholding Group of Companies)
2) Export Consultant for many Plastic Bags Factories in Thailand)


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คริสตจักรแห่งพันธสัญญา
(Church of Covenant)

อาคาร ชุมนุมสหกรณ์เครดิตยูเนี่ยนแห่งประเทศไทย
สถานที่ : ตั้งอยู่ระหว่างซอยรามคำแหง 100 และ 102
สุขาภิบาล 3
(ห้องประชุมใหญ่ชั้น 3)

แผนที่ คริสตจักรแห่งพันธสัญญา กรุงเทพ
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=110057703588806982978.00046c792e4068bae7473&ved=0CAkQnAUwAA&sa=X&ei=oJPNSsLGCZC6vAP87PnmCQ

สอบถามข้อมูลเพิ่มเติม ได้ที่
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/aucharavesarachkitti
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/Luke
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/chidarunteepjirungkul
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/VeerasakJitareesatian

ที่มา
http://www.churchofcovenant.com

A change is happening in Bangkok

Yes, I have been told that it seems one thing good that came out of this split with Hope Bangkok and the big issue in Bangkok is that, I think God is trying to relight the fire in Bangkok, where once there was only Hope Church dominating the Thailand scene, this split have helped created many neutral churches that i believe will only be Good for Thailand.

No matter how PN and Dr.J try to get back those churches that split from the movement, i believe this move is caused by the hand of God. Hope as a movement was getting too big and too many bureaucracies and efficient management of both financial and human resources. So instead of one Big church under Dr. Kriengsak and Ps PN from Hope Bangkok, God had allowed this split so that more leaders can rise up from within Bangkok.

As of today, there are many new churches breaking from Hope Movement under both Hope Church in Bangkok.

A close in bangkok told me that we have HIM pastors now going to the bible conference happening currently in Bangkok. And a number of new churches have decided to join under HIM wings, but will remain autonomous. I believe the new one is called Church of Convenant. I just read it on their website. http://www.churchofcovenant.com/


Its mostly in thai but they have a link to HIM website...


Well bible says, what devil meant to destroy, God will use it for his work.

I believe God will open up Bangkok as more churches sprout up and pastors start to take the lead. And hopefully those training they receive will help them build stronger churches in Bangkok

Hope Hong Kong I think has decided to be independent. Still I believe we are all one big family. May God also help them build something in Hong Kong. I did not see their name in the HIM blog and from my source, they might decided to be independent.

** I dont know but it seems that PN is still going to many countries to preach, i think recently to Africa. Well. that i wont comment.

Monday, October 26, 2009

An article - Church Horror Stories

Below is a recent article posted by one commentator

A church horror story

Q. I've been curious about what your take on my current situation would be. My family has been attending a new church for about ten months. We don't agree with some of the pastor's teachings (I've been down the "works" path and refuse to go back) but we are there mainly to give our children a church family as they have many friends in our homeschooling community who go to that church. I feel I get my spiritual nourishment from many different places and I didn't have a problem not getting "fed" at "church" so to speak.

Well, a few months ago during a camping trip it came out that I didn't agree with everything the pastor said. I tried to downplay it because this is a small, close knit church. I knew from my past church experiences that there was no sense in expressing my differences to church leadership because they would not change. They worship their pastor and believe what he says is not to be questioned.

After Bible study Wednesday night the pastor asked me to stay behind and everyone left. There was just the pastor, another man and me (my husband was not there that night). The pastor told me that I needed to decide if he was going to be my spiritual teacher. He used Hebrews 13:17 to tell me that I needed to obey him -- that even if I disagreed with him I needed to trust him. And if I did disagree, I needed to be quiet about it.

A couple of weeks earlier he had given a sermon (directed at me) about how there was someone in the group who didn't agree with what was being taught and who was causing problems. He said that "this person" needs to repent.

Responding to his interrogation on Wedensday night, I told the pastor I really didn't look at him as my spiritual mentor, although I loved and respected him and his walk with the Lord. I didn't say anything negative. I told him I didn't think it was a problem for people to discuss what they believe or discuss other scriptural viewpoints -- because "iron sharpens iron." But he made it very clear that Hebrews 13:17 commands me to come "under him" and to be quiet. He said that he does not want division in his church. He also advised me to stop listening to sermons from other pastors and teachers so that I wouldn't get confused. I told him I didn't feel confused at all. God is HUGE to me and doesn't fit into any box. I love what God is doing in everyone's life and I love learning and growing. I don't want to be limited to one man's teaching.

I wasn't hurt by what he said, though it was painful to sit there -- he was a coward in my book to not talk to my husband and me together. I was, however, hurt by how the people in the church knew what was going on, and I didn't. When my kids asked where I was, the church leaders' kids told my kids I was getting kicked out of the church. These were supposed to be my friends.

This whole episode is actually quite comical except for the fact that I have five young kids who are hurting on the inside because they will not be able to hang out with their friends anymore. What a mess for a testimony of Christian love. I later found out that one family had told their kids not to talk to mine -- but the kids did anyway when the parents weren't around.

So, with all that said, what do you think about my "submitting" to the pastor? By the way, obviously, I'm not going back. I don't think it's healthy for my kids to be under that kind of leadership. Yet part of me wants to go back and apologize to the people if they thought I was trying to cause a problem. That was truly not my intent.

Thanks for your input, Greg. I always enjoy your answers and respect your interpretation.

A. I guess I should not be shocked when I hear reports such as yours. After all, I know it's happening, so how can I be surprised? You ask for my input. Here goes. Your relationship with God is being damaged. God is being misrepresented to you. From what you have said about this situation, I can see nothing for which you should apologize.

If more people boycotted such Christ-less hell holes that call themselves a church then perhaps legalistic religion would realize the pathetic product of its dogma and control.

Leave. Don't go back. Nothing at all, in terms of a relationship with a brick and mortar church (church attendance, activities, outings, camping trips, church "friendships" -- etc.) is better than what you describe. Stay at home if need be -- if more people boycotted such Christ-less hell holes that call themselves a church then perhaps legalistic religion would realize the pathetic product of its dogma and control.

I know about this kind of authoritarianism and the lasting impact it usually has on our relationship with God. I experienced a similar kind of manipulation and brow-beating, guilt trips, and transfers of blame -- for many years. I and many others who existed in that particular religious swamp were told, when we didn't agree with religious authorities, that we were in "bad attitudes" -- and when we expressed disagreement we were told that we weren't being "loyal" (to a human being!). When and if we failed to conform to legalistic practice one of the ultimate clubs was to be told that our "conversion" was questionable.

And of course, when all else failed, there was blazing hot hell fire that awaited us, because we couldn't be obedient to God (that is, God as perverted and corrupted by religion). I lived through such religious oppression, thinking that I was the problem. I experienced such mind games at the hands of authorities who, to the best of my knowledge, were sincere. They were of course way off base -- way wrong -- but sincere. Deceived and messed up, and doing their best to mess up everyone to whom they "ministered" and "served." Your pastor may also be completely sincere -- but he is sincerely wrong.

Sad to say, I became a religious authority in the same religious context, and inflicted the same rules, regimens and regulations -- the same atmosphere of fear and shame, of intimidation and bullying. Thinking it was what God wanted, I dished up the same kind of religious propaganda and lies on others. Many of my friends who knew me back then, and who continue to exist within a similar religious world view, believe that I am overstating the reality of what I and many others experienced back then. I believe that they, for a variety of reasons, are unable to deal with the truth of what happened to them and what they themselves participated in -- and thus they live in some degree of denial. I thank God for his gracious deliverance from religion -- for myself, for many people I know, and for many people I serve. I thank God that it seems that you too understand something seems to be horribly wrong in this church you have been attending.

Once again, the sincerity of your pastor and your friends is not the issue. Most of them, perhaps all of them, are doing what they believe to be "right." But by God's grace you seem to know it's not right at all. You mention that some of your friends "worship" the pastor -- when that dynamic is present it can give that human leader carte blanche, and eventually a person given that kind of reverence, whether politically, religiously, on the job or in the family, will become somewhat convinced that they are above and beyond the run of the mill people they ostensibly "serve." Worship of a pastor, however worship may be defined, is a huge danger sign.

Don't put up with this kind of treatment. Many who realize something is very wrong continue to allow such un-Christ-like behavior, in the context of a church, somewhat like a battered spouse will make excuses for his/her spouse who is physically and emotionally abusing them. The abused person will think they can change the abusive party. The abused person will talk about the "good times" when the abuse is not happening. The abused person will make excuses for the perpetrator, justifying him or her.

Women in particular find themselves in a difficult place when adult male spiritual leaders play the submission card. It's often the trump card, used to bring the "rebellious" woman back into line. And, ganging up on a woman when her husband is not present?!?! Religion is all about control.

My question is simple: I challenge religious legalism to please demonstrate and explain how Jesus is all about control. He is the polar opposite! This doesn't mean Jesus is a wimp -- it does mean Jesus gives us choices. He does not chain us to the church pews to make sure we attend every week! May God give you the wisdom and courage to take the steps you need. May his grace and peace be with you. My prayers are with you.

Sunday, October 25, 2009

Almost 1 yr on to Hope Movement Split

It almost now 1yr to the time our Hope Movement was split because of Dr.Joseph and PN action in the Hope Movement. And from that time until there was a number of big changes.
HGI was renamed to HIM now led by Ps Simon, Hope Bangkok Church was split with PN leading one side and Rubina leading the other. Some other churches as well split from Hope and have remained such.

In HIM, we are still refining and changing some of the old Hope issues that have plagued the movement. From all the comments i have read, there are still pockets of Hope elements which are still there. I suppose its always hard to do wholesale changes and no doubt Hope's previous teaching will still have some impact especially those trained in Hope Thailand or have been very closely related to the Hope Church in Bangkok.

In summary issues that needs dealing with

1. BGR issues that have always been very poorly dealt with

2. Pride attitude always assuming we are the best

3. Poor people management skills by the leaders

4. Poor leadership training and selection of leadership based on favourtism rather than by lifestyle

5. Teachings and methods sometimes bodering on cultish behaviour
- Leaders telling members what to do
- People who leave church are often ostracised and cut off

6. Leadership often blaming people using the term "Bad spirit" instead of taking responsiblity.

Whatever 1 yr from now if this things still happen its anyone's guest. But i believe many people who are reading this or left will have stories which can relate to one of these points.

Hopefully HIM can take a bigger role in changing the old Hope Philosophy. Well, Happy Annivesary.

Monday, October 12, 2009

New HIM website and Hope Bangkok

Yes, it is up and running.. the HIM website. I have placed a link. If you are interested its there.

Just a quick update..Thailand Situation

The thailand situation is still very much... all over. There is still alot of movement and I believe some Thai churches would want to join HIM movement.

PN church is apparently doing pretty well, He was recently invited to i think Africa to speak... mmmmm.. i wonder if the international organisation know what is happening. Unfortunately from what i undertand people in PN church refuse to believe that PN committed adultery even though there is evidence of his infidelity.

Its sad that Hope Bangkok Church people would be so blinded by loyalty that they would not investigate the claim futher.

I am not too sure how HIM will deal with PN and the Hope link. The problem is that we stil use Hope and all those who broke from Hope still retain the name. I can only say it will surely cause more confusion.

I had hope in the future we will have a new name.. maybe call New Hope... to break from the past. I know PN is planning to send people overseas to plant church and you can imagine the confusion it will create.

But.. its my opinion. A name is still a name... as long the truth is out in the open.

I really dont know how to convince the thai bro and sister who just follow blindly.. i suppose only God knows.

Monday, October 5, 2009

The Great debate in BGR

After reading some of the comments, I do see that many people have experienced the downside of the Relationship system currently employed. I do agree with some of the views that black and white principles need to be taught eg.

1. Pre-Martial Sex
2. Appropriate relationship behaviour

As for the system where if you are interested in a party you tell your shepherd and your shepherd decides for you and also talks to the other party shepherd. I can say with my time at home this method only happens in 1 out of 100. I hardly see this happening, most of the time by the time people tell their shepherd they would have asked the other party.

Unfortunately, because God created us so unique, we can never effectively decide which party is more suited to one another. Thus trying to arrange partnership never really works. I prefer the thrill of the chase, but kept within biblical boundaries. I am sure, girls like to be wooed too.

Rather then make people feel guilty to fall in love, teach guys and girls to enjoy wholesome relationship. Someone once ask me when is the right time to start a relationship, in Hope when you are studying it is a no-no. In fact many times you will face punishment and be forced to step-down from leadership.

Today i hope to bust some myth. So here goes.

I believe many readers will agree that God is perfect and is all-knowing. Therefore if we believe that, then we must believe that when God allow something to happen, he must believe that it is an appropriate timing.

Every human have a hormones clock, where we start to become aware of the opposite "creation", this is often coupled by some physical changes like voice cracking and etc. At school, we have doctors and nurses that do occasional body check. I went through it, they then rate your growth - from facial hair, voice, body structure, etc. And you will notice each people grow differently

Ok here is the thing, if God is never wrong and God in his infinite wisdom decides that Mr A will develop feelings for the opposite ""creation" at 14yrs of age. Then God must have his reasons. The things is each person develops at varying degree at different ages. So when we begin to develop and notice those changes, then we know that that is is time for the next stage in our life. To say that having feelings is wrong then we are doing God a dis-service.

Remember this though - The schooling system was developed by Man not by God, God did not plan the High school, College and University, man did that. To say that a university is wrong to fall in love, is i believe totally inappropriate, did God say that ?

The key is teaching Guys and Gals to "manage" the feelings and work within biblical boundaries. Teach them it is not wrong to have feelings, but teach them how to mange it so that it will not affect their work. Encourage positive interaction, not try and subjugate the people.

The worst thing a church can do is to sweep it all under the carpet and expect every student to be a monk or nun. Seriously this never works. Emotions are very powerful tools and if not handled properly can burn a person badly.

God allow us to mature around 13-18 yrs depending of course on individual, some people never grow-up and may not mature until 30 but... when we first develop such strong emotions, it would have been more constructive to have a peer to guide us how to use the emotions and work within the biblical guidelines.

An example would be when a Father buys his Son a Super-charged Evolution iX, If the Dad do not explain how to drive it and also explain the consequence and set some speed boundaries, of course being a hot-headed teenager there is no guarantee he will not try and drive it at 200KM/hr.


So if you ask me what age ? There is no age, the key is to watch and when you realise someone is coming of age. Guide them along and teach them to handle it better.

Remember, God set everything in His time..