Monday, October 12, 2009

New HIM website and Hope Bangkok

Yes, it is up and running.. the HIM website. I have placed a link. If you are interested its there.

Just a quick update..Thailand Situation

The thailand situation is still very much... all over. There is still alot of movement and I believe some Thai churches would want to join HIM movement.

PN church is apparently doing pretty well, He was recently invited to i think Africa to speak... mmmmm.. i wonder if the international organisation know what is happening. Unfortunately from what i undertand people in PN church refuse to believe that PN committed adultery even though there is evidence of his infidelity.

Its sad that Hope Bangkok Church people would be so blinded by loyalty that they would not investigate the claim futher.

I am not too sure how HIM will deal with PN and the Hope link. The problem is that we stil use Hope and all those who broke from Hope still retain the name. I can only say it will surely cause more confusion.

I had hope in the future we will have a new name.. maybe call New Hope... to break from the past. I know PN is planning to send people overseas to plant church and you can imagine the confusion it will create.

But.. its my opinion. A name is still a name... as long the truth is out in the open.

I really dont know how to convince the thai bro and sister who just follow blindly.. i suppose only God knows.


ex-member said...

Don't want to sound negative or mean, but just my honest thoughts.

I don't see much difference from the past and the new HIM. Only cosmetic changes, but making my observation from the site- the core, mindset & practise seems to remain the same.

I expected more than this since the wait was pretty long. Even the website of the Pastor's Resource is not updated and still under Hope of God.

I think what many are expecting is what is so distinctly NEW about HIM that differentiates itself from the past.

Sorry. I couldn't find the answer.

Agreed said...

I agree... I don't see any difference as well. My leaders still have the same mindset. They behave in the same way & it's just on the surface only that they pretend to change.

I don't know how much more time we have to give them. I'm getting tired already, I think if nothing else changes by the end of the year, my wife & I will go somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

"New Hope Church" already exists. At least in Brisbane.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm just know that my church is under HIM after I saw in HIM official website, I tough we are under old HOPE cause I didn't see much change happen and sometimes my pastor still talking about the founder in teaching.

Anonymous said...

For an organization, it sure seems unorganized. There's no official headquarters, no official physical office or mailing address or phone number. The main contact is a generic gmail address.

Looks like we are trying to have our own pseudo denomination, but not enough real leadership and skills to pull it off.

Anonymous said...

Most Hope chuches do not even register themselves with the their home countries' Memorandum of churches... Hope Church has a notorous believe in indiviudalism and is NEVER open to partnership with other churches. And this is very dangerous~~~

Anonymous said...

Churches should be part of the body of Christ, the universal church. But with Hope, the organization is the body. HIM seems no different. I still don't know what my tithes are really being used for. We still have a "founder". It's just a different guy.

I agree with previous post. This is dangerous. All we did is change the name and leader.

Anonymous said...

Agree, Hope Church is very individualist. The physical evidence shows it. Nearly every church has a high percentage of Asians. Nothing wrong with that (if you're in Asia).

If we're supposed to build biblical churches all over the world why are they mostly all Asian? Are we saying the Asian Hope church is the only biblical church out there? If your answer is "no", why not join up with existing biblical, established, experienced, proven organizations instead of doing everything ourselves?

Hope / HIM simply does not have the experience and skills needed to professionally manage a group of international churches. It will survive but not flourish. The last 9 months have proven that (nothing much has changed).

Anonymous said...

Dear all,

Further food for thoughts from this article by Willow Creek Community Church about doing church.

Anonymous said...

I meant this

Anonymous said...

Since only 24 people took the poll, it seems to indicate most Hope/HIM people don't know about this blog. Change requires communication with the right leaders. Change requires people to rally together to bring issues to the table. Think about it. The rest of our christian lives are at stake. Will it be a continued life of old Hope mentality? Thats easy to do. Just do nothing. Or, take the narrow path and do something new and exciting? You decide.

A single voice is just a whisper.

Anonymous said...

Christianity Today article (above) article is interesting. Churches need to be aware that too much activities makes a lot of weak christians (at least they are saved).

Too much deep spiritual teachings still makes weak christians because people often end up focusing on pet doctrines and forget about basic christianity. This is even worse than the above because there are not enough new people being saved. At the same time, the existing members are distracted by insisting on thier pet doctrines and rejecting everyone who opposes them.

Need a balance between administrative and spiritual things.

Watcher said...

Hi all,

Watcher here. I have not posted much for the past few weeks due to work issues. I seriously need to do my work with all my heart by God's grace, so that through my work I can glorify God and fulfill His purpose for me in the work place. For the workplace is one of the places in which I serve the Lord my God (Colossians 3:23-24). "Serving God" and "Finding your ministry" must never be restricted exclusively in the context of the church.

Why do I mention the above? As stated in Romans 12:1, we should all offer our lives as holy and pleasing sacrifice unto the Lord, in view of His mercy towards us. This is our spiritual act of worship. Thus, every aspect of our lives, be it in our workplace, church activities, family live, etc, should all be spiritual, being led by the Spirit of God. For us as Christians, to be "spiritual" comprises a life filled with the Holy Spirit. Our dead spirit was made alive by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, such that we are alive in Christ by His grace through faith in Christ alone. Being 'spiritual' is not limited to just spending long hours in quiet time, prayer, getting involved deeply in church ministry, etc. If you can do all of these, yet blatantly ignore your vocation at your work place which is given by God, or ignoring your service to your family or friends in the social world, I do not see how you could be called spiritual. Likewise, if a christian is so obsessed with his work but totally ignores that he should also serve his fellow brothers and sisters in church, then this is also not correct.

As for Willow Creek, the root issue, I believe, is the seeker-sensitive teachings that drives the growth and foundation of the Willow Creek church. WHen God called us to obey the great commission, we are told to spread the gospel, telling ppl of the need to repent of their sins and that it is only by faith in Christ, that sinners can be forgiven of their sins and be saved. However, this core message of the gospel which proclaims the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus on the third day has been thrown aside. Outreach to non-believers was done by being sensitive to their "needs". Seeker-sensitive churches then create all sorts of program in the church, programs that meet the needs (such as friendship, fulfillment of life potential, finding ministry to serve and find meaning in life), transforming the church to suit the culture of the day, so that it can appeal to the masses to join the church. I am not saying that the needs of the non-believers are not important. The church should of course be a place where such needs could be met. But the real need of the non-believers, which is their need for a Saviour who is able to forgive their sins and save them from the coming wrath of God, through His atoning blood that redeems us. From then on, our lives would be transformed more and more into the likeness of Christ. If this is ignored in the mission of the church, and the church just becomes a place for christians just to be zealous in works and be committed wholeheartedly, yet throwing aside the gospel of God's grace, sooner or later that church would end up being performance-based and works-based to demonstrate how "committed" they are to God. In effect, this is none other than trying to justify oneself before God through your own works. Of course, I am not denying that we should be zealous. However, if zeal is not coupled with true knowledge, that is, the doctrines of the Bible, christians would burn out.


Watcher said...

Hi all,

Following from what I have written, it is not far fetched to conclude that perhaps the large numbers in so many of the mega-churches, such willow, do not mean that all of these ppl have a saving knowledge of Christ our Lord. In short, perhaps many of them are not regenerate, not born again. They are in the mega-churches simply because of the appeal of cultural appeal of the mega-church. I personally believe that there are genuine brothers and sisters in Christ in mega-churches. What I am saying is that we must never be deluded to thinking that large numbers of ppl in church equates that all of them are genuine Christians. This may sound shocking but it certainly does happen.

It is a sad fact that there are churches so steep in doctrinal orthodoxy yet is so void of life and vitality. It is also equally a sad fact that there are churches that may seem to be so zealous, so full of the Spirit in terms of service and programs, actually contain a substantial portion of ppl who are not truly renegnerate. In short, ppl are sold into performance-based churches and their "job scopes", but are never converted to Christ.

Hopefully, my comments help. I would like to suggest an article which I will post here. It is written by a Christian apologist and theologian.


ex-member said...

I thought the video clip from the Willow Creek experience is worth watching...

Anonymous said...

I wish to caution all people about some Hope leaders who uses excuses such as asking the members to "check their spirit" whenever members raised up issues that are of genuine concern and when the leaders could seemingly able to given a convincing and biblical answer to. They would then brand these people who asked the questions as having "rebellious" spirit and asking other members to separately themselves from such members in order not to catch their "rebellious" spirit.

Those who are currently still being treated in the Hope movement through this manner should sound out to other members and let them be aware of such "unscrupulous" tactics used by the Hope leadership.

Personally I have already heard of a few of such examples from leaders in Hope Singapore.

ex-member said...

Ya man... I totally agree about the "check your spirit" part. Absurd.

Its like they are emotion-less. And talking from the top of an ivory tower.

Should we tell that to a pre-believer who is questioning about God?

E.g.... Please check your spirit before you question God. Or else he won't listen to you and you cannot receive him.

Don't know where that concept come from??

We read in the bible how David in Psalms was darn bad spirited and even Job when they were going through their trials and sufferings.

But yet, God listened to them and stood by them.

ex-member said...

I think that is why those readers who are in Hope cannot accept what this blog stands for as it is termed as "bad-spirited".