Hope Perth Summary and History (Updated)

I have taken sometime and also from my knowledge of the Hope History to provide a quick summary of Hope Perth . As there are many comments which has alot of emotions running. I Hope by providing only factual accounts and summarising the issues in a neutral way that we can be objective. I believe everyone has a point.


History

Hope Perth began very early on and was among the first few international churches started by Hope Bangkok, under Dr Joseph Kriengsak. He preached during one of the OCF camp and challenged many people to start a church. I believe one of the teachings was One Man One World.

The first leader was called S.C. But the leader left the movement but still resides in Perth . Leaders from Singapore were then assigned to comeover to help out in the interim. Then a leader from Canberra decided to heed the call and come over to Perth to help the church. He was indeed ordained as a Pastor and its a title he held and conferred by HGI. The church at that time was around 40 over people strong. The number was as high as 70 people at the time

Due to personal reasons he had to change his role but was still serving in the Church, and interim leaders were asked to help out, until a new coordinator came from Malaysia, she was challenged by the Pastor from KL to come over. She held the co-coordinator role until around 2002-03, where she decided to return back to KL, there are a number of reasons given for her decision to leave to KL not just about the people in Perth. The number I believe was around the 30-50 people region depending on the season.

As in most Oceania Churches, the numbers usually drop during the holiday period as most are student dominated and church number usually drop when Student return home for holiday.

During this time, a family from Bangkok was challenged to go to perth. This family was the pitavanik family. Ps Stephen was asked to come over and head the church. He came over on a student visa and as mentioned by YLC regarding remuneration, which i believe should be a factual account as his comments were never attacked by anyone.

Taken from YLC post :

The remuneration packages for Pastor Stephen and his predecessor were exactly that – a package, never 100% cash in hand. Accommodation costs like rent and the electricity, gas and water expenses were paid directly to the landlord or creditor without going through the pastor’s bank account. Original invoices and receipts were retained on file. The pastor would only receive the food, petrol and honorarium allowances by cheque. All church cheques were crossed “not negotiable” and had to be banked into an account. I left detailed written summaries on the church’s accounting files that show how the amounts on each cheque were calculated. Pertinent details were written on the relevant cheque butts. A clear paper trail existed for audit purposes.

The actual amounts paid to Pastor Stephen and his predecessor were not disclosed to the church generally or made publicly available. For the reasons set out above and in instalment 2, I think we should be comfortable with that position.

In my view it was sufficient that during my watch:

a) the system of checks and balances I have explained was in place and functioning;
b) the church’s authorised signatories who signed cheques with me knew the actual amounts being paid and had no objections; and
c) the actual amounts paid to the pastors every financial year were included at the end of that financial year on the revenue and expense statements made available to the church leadership team for them to examine.

Here are some actual numbers for the accountants:

In the 2003-2004 financial year, Hope Perth spent $38,044.49 against revenue of $46,888.98. Of the $38,044.49 spent, $13,780.52 went to supporting the pastors. Not earth shattering numbers. Of the $8,844.49 operating surplus, $7,351.05 (20%) went to HGI and $735.11 (2%) went to Hope Australia.

In theory this left a $758.33 surplus. In reality the position was more challenging as $1,907.95 of the revenue was comprised of interest earned on the money in the building fund. While the building fund and interest earned on its principal was preserved, we had in effect run a $1,149.62 deficit to fund regular activities.This was as far as I was prepared to let things go.

In the following 2004-2005 financial year (my last since my family left not too long thereafter) we had tithes and offerings revenue of $55,881.63 and spent a total of $54,347.83. There were also other sources of income. The operating surplus exceeded $1,533.80 and compensated for the deficit the previous year. In addition, interest was earned on the principal in building fund. The entire building fund of approximately $32,000-$35,000 was intact.

In 2004-2005, Pastor Stephen received a larger package than his predecessor. That was logical. He has a wife and 2 children to support and Pastor Hannah, Joseph and Benjung contributed significantly to the spiritual well being of the church. The increased revenue had allowed me to present a larger remuneration package. A package I would have been delighted to present to his predecessor.

( unquote)

Conclusion

It is in my belief that Financial numbers were presented and were available to anyone since the inception of the church. Though it might not be on a regular basis, I believe it is Hope standard practice to show at least the figure once a year even in Hope Bangkok.

Hope Perth during the whole period of its existence average around 40. Hope perth grew under Ps Stephen from around an average of 40 people to an average of around 100 from 2003- current.

Issues did arise, as per what was discussed and there are number of different opinion as to the reasons why this occurred.

Hope Perth Church - Discussion ( Updated)

I have updated the post discussion with the relevant article as the other article was about something different. There are now 101 comments on the Hope perth issue and would try to summarize the 101 comments as best as i can. If in anyway there is doubt over the summary do kindly just read all the comments in previous post. I will take out personal discussion between commentators to try and put a succinct and concise summary on issues that were raised and are still being discussed. I will also post a comment regarding the current situation.

Issues that were raised were mainly about Policies implemented in Hope Perth Church, finance issues and issues relating to the Pastor in charge.

Quote from white Knight

1. Did he stop people from going and attending people's wedding once you leave church ?? Yes or no ?
2. Did he really wanted to buy an airplane ? ( Yes or No ? )- even at the expense of disobeying the top leaders ? Yes or No ?
3. Does he take people feedback and use it in the sermon without first talking to the person. Yes or No ?
4. Was the financial issue mentioned really true ? What was the type of benefit he is getting from the church ? Is there every a full disclosure of spending and transparency of account ?

Quote from Just a friendly HIM friend

1. I believe Hope Perth was never at 20+. Maybe during holiday period.
But I think we should also give the other leaders before Ps Stephen who lead Hope perth some credit.

Quote from Genesis, VIC, XXX, etc : Summary on what i gather

1. General Half-truth being spoken most of the time by leaders - I believe the issues are diverse it may be on a case to case issue. ( Have to read the blog ) - you have to read the comments
2. A few issues were also raised into the purpose and existence of the Emergency Fund and Church Building Fund and why there are no more accounts
3. Also an issue was raised about AGM where not every member were invited but only selected group of people
3 Issues regarding Church mission car and how it came about raised by Witness and King Bonanza which is being revealed YLC

• "As the church grew in numbers from 20+ to 100+, he started mission trips to further parts of WA along with his leadership team, so he requested to get a car for mission trip, but was rejected by the person who in charged of the finance. Frankly, I do not have the in-between details as to why the person rejected the purchase for the mission car, what I can see and testify is Ps Stephen's heartbeat to win many souls for God, and he has been consistent through the years I know him." - By Witness

King Bonza said...Witness, please help me with my memory.

• You wrote that Pastor Stephen’s request for the mission car was rejected by the person in charge of finance. How then did Pastor Stephen pay for the dark purple Kia Carnival which he bought just before Pastor Prayuth visited to teach the worship team? Pastor Stephen couldn’t access the church’s money then without help could he?

I think among all these 57 comments these were the more pertinent questions relating to Hope Perth Church. - I will try to sum it up as these simple points that are being discussed by both side of the party. Please bear in mind this is not exhaustive but a quick summary of what is being discussed.

1. Church finance policy

• Remuneration and benefit for pastor
• Mission Car ( still being discussed by YLC)
• Emergency fund and Church building fund
• Transparency of church accounts

There have been some doubt as to how money was spend in the church and the benefits provided for the pastor. One commentator mentioned that Pastor did claim to want to take-over and be in charge of finance and he did preached that in the sermon, while another said that he handed it over to someone to take charge. There were claims of high pay and benefits including housing allowance, provision of the use of 2 vehicle for the family and also higher pay due to his Visa requirement. Emergency fund was mentioned and one commentator asked why it was stopped and never mentioned again. There was also an apparent in the transparency of the accounts and good policies to handle finance.


2. Integrity issue with the pastor

• talking about people who left church without their knowledge
• Forbidding people from associating with those who left church including wedding
  
• using people's feedback in sermon without their consent
  
• wanting a buy a plane and learning to fly even when Hope eldership did not agree.

This seems to be a black and white case, as both side did not disagree on the policy Pastor Stephen implemented but only on how it was done and implemented. The plane issue was discussed and both side though seem to have differing opinion as to how and when the plane will be bought. Pastor using feedback or using stories without people's consent was another thing brought up but no responses were varied

Conclusion

In all many points were raised and does seem valid, people must feel really strongly to have raised such an issue concerning the pastor. As i myself have also not come across any Hope Church members mentioning about their pastor.

As a leader we must always remember we need to be always live up to what we have attain, flaming people and telling Half-truth will only get people more riled up especially if the stories make one party seem good and the other seem bad. As for finance, i do suggest a better policy and more independent board to ensure greater transparency.

Whatever the Pastor from Hope Perth is doing the right thing or wrong thing only time will tell, he should take the experience he has from Thailand, both the success and failures and learn to be a better person.

I do think if he does change, i am sure people will be willing to forgive him. No man is perfect and we do not expect one to be, but we should always strive towards perfection, learning from our mistakes and become a better person in the end.

Biblediscuss post for Ps Stephen

For those who have asked me to post the english translation of the thai post by Ps Stephen. Unfortunately, there are only 55 post showing up in the forum even though 171 were posted by him.

I have looked at the post and its just ordinary discussion. The other posts pertaining to PK letter and Rubina action were not found.

So unless there is something unless there is something that needs translation i would just leave it for now.

And FYI, there was a post I made someone which i had of the HGI eldership meeting discussion something to do with finance about Ps Stephen and also I believe something to do with flying. The note are somewhere in the blog and also in my files somewhere. I will repost it if i find it.

In any case, I suppose just another case of Hope Bangkok Trained pastor. I think, the people in Perth would know more. Will leave it as that on my side.

Ciao

Bible Conference in Thailand

The bible conference attended by 2 HIM speakers for our HIM churches in Bangkok


The Core - คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 at 1:56pm

แจ้งปรับกำหนดการเร็วขึ้น

8.00 - 8.30 ลงทะเบียนเข้าอบรม
8.30 เริ่มอธิษฐานและเข้าสู่โปรแกรมการอบรม

ขอให้พี่น้องทุกท่านที่เข้าอบรม พยายามมาก่อนเวลา
เนื่องจากจำนวนผู้เข้าอบรมในตอนนี้มีเพิ่มมากขึ้น
ที่นั่งอาจจะไม่เพียงพอได้

การมาก่อนเวลาจะทำให้ทีมงานได้จัดเตรียมอำนวยความสะดวก
ในเรื่องที่นั่งการเข้าอบรมให้พี่น้องได้ก่อนถึงเวลาจริง

ขอพระเจ้าอวยพระพรพี่น้องทุกท่านให้ได้รับพระพรสูงสุดจากการอบรม
"The Core-คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์"


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เรียนเชิญ พี่น้องคริสเตียนทุกท่าน

เข้าร่วมงานสัมมนาพระคัมภีร์ ในหัวข้อที่น่าสนใจและสำคัญมากๆสำหรับการดำเนินชีวิตคริสเตียน

"คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์"
วันศุกร์ที่ 23 ตุลาคม 2009 นี้ เวลา 8.30 - 17.30
และวันอาทิตย์ ที่ 25 ตุลาคม 2009 เวลา 13.30 - 16.00 น.

ณ คริสตจักรแห่งพันธสัญญา กรุงเทพ
อัตราค่าสมัคร 100 บาท

Bangkok, The Core 2009, Oct 23
" คริสตจักรที่มีแก่นแท้ตามพระคัมภีร์ "

วิทยากรรับเชิญจากต่างประเทศ

Dr. Brendan Kirby

อ.ดร.เบรนดอน เคอบี้
ดร.เบรนดอน เป็นนักวิทยาศาสตร์(ฟิสิกส์) สังกัด กระทรวงกลาโหมของรัฐบาลออสเตรเลียในปัจจุบัน
นอกจากเป็น ศบ.คจ.ที่อดิเลย์แล้ว ข้อมูลอื่นๆ ของท่านดังนี้

Dr. Brendan Kirby is the pastor of church in Adelaide. Dr. Kirby was
born again in 1984. He joined in 1991 and started Church
in Adelaide in October 1998 with his wife Helen (whom he married in
1994). He overseas 7 churches in South Australia and Western
Australia (WA), and has been responsible for bringing some churches
in Liberia and in Democratic Republic of Congo into the Movement. He and Nigel
recently planted a church in Esperance. Brendan currently works
as a part time research scientist, 3 days a week, and serves as a
pastor in his remaining time.

Ps. Stephen Pitavanik

Pastor Stephen Pitavanik is the man of faith who has a strong vision to plant churches since year 1985. He has the gift of teaching the Word of God, in an expository manner. Through his ministry of teaching, God has transformed the hearts and lives of many.

He is also highly recognised for laying clear foundations and principles of Christian doctrines in people’s lives and to the church. Under his leadership, many leaders have been raised up to serve God together in a great unity.

He enjoys talking with people and makes them feel at home in the family of Perth. His pastoring heart shows to all in love and care for them holistically.

Pastor Stephen is a caring father and husband to his family. He and with his wife, Hannah, alongside with their two children, Joseph and Benjung, set the great example in serving God together actively reiterates Joshua 24: 15b “As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

อ.สิทธิพล ปีตะวนิค หรือ Pastor Stephen ในด้านการศึกษาพระวจนะ ท่านจบการศึกษาด้านศาสานศาสตร์และการรับใช้ระดับปริญญาตรีที่ Harvest West Bible College ณ เมืองเพิร์ธ ประเทศออสเตรเลีย และยังได้รับการอบรมหลักสูตรต่างๆทางพระคัมภีร์จากหลายสถาบันในเพิร์ธ เช่น Riverview Bible College, Western Australian Bible College และสมัยเป็นผู้เชื่อใหม่ในปี 1986 ได้เดินทางไปศึกษาพระคัมภีร์ที่รร.พระคริสต์ธรรม Tung Ling Bible College ประเทศสิงค์โปร์ หลังจากได้ศึกษาจบหลักสูตรเตรียมผู้รับใช้จากประเทศไทยในเวลานั้น ในด้านการรับใช้ อ.สตีเฟ่น มีประสบการณ์บุกเบิก และก่อตั้งคริสตจักรหลายแห่งในประเทศไทย และต่างประเทศ ในประเทศไทยเช่นบุกเบิกคริสตจักรในลำปาง สตูล หาดใหญ่ สุไหงโกลก เคยเป็นผู้นำดูแลกลุ่มคริสตจักรในเจ็ดจังหวัดภาคใต้ของประเทศไทย ปัจจุบันดำรงตำแหน่งเป็นศิษยาภิบาล (Senior Pastor) คริสตจักร Perth Christian Church, Australia ท่านเป็นผู้มีของประทานในการบุกเบิก วางรากฐานคริสตจักร และเทศนาเชิงอรรถาธิบาย โดยปรารถนาที่จะเห็นนิมิตรพระมหาบัญชาขององค์พระเยซูคริสต์สำเร็จในโลกในระยะเวลาอันใกล้นี้


PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND :
1) Export Promotion Manager of President Agri Trading Co.,Ltd. Thailand (Saha PattanaPibul Interholding Group of Companies)
2) Export Consultant for many Plastic Bags Factories in Thailand)


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คริสตจักรแห่งพันธสัญญา
(Church of Covenant)

อาคาร ชุมนุมสหกรณ์เครดิตยูเนี่ยนแห่งประเทศไทย
สถานที่ : ตั้งอยู่ระหว่างซอยรามคำแหง 100 และ 102
สุขาภิบาล 3
(ห้องประชุมใหญ่ชั้น 3)

แผนที่ คริสตจักรแห่งพันธสัญญา กรุงเทพ
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=110057703588806982978.00046c792e4068bae7473&ved=0CAkQnAUwAA&sa=X&ei=oJPNSsLGCZC6vAP87PnmCQ

สอบถามข้อมูลเพิ่มเติม ได้ที่
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/aucharavesarachkitti
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/Luke
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/chidarunteepjirungkul
http://churchcovenant.ning.com/profile/VeerasakJitareesatian

ที่มา
http://www.churchofcovenant.com