For those who have asked me to post the english translation of the thai post by Ps Stephen. Unfortunately, there are only 55 post showing up in the forum even though 171 were posted by him.
I have looked at the post and its just ordinary discussion. The other posts pertaining to PK letter and Rubina action were not found.
So unless there is something unless there is something that needs translation i would just leave it for now.
And FYI, there was a post I made someone which i had of the HGI eldership meeting discussion something to do with finance about Ps Stephen and also I believe something to do with flying. The note are somewhere in the blog and also in my files somewhere. I will repost it if i find it.
In any case, I suppose just another case of Hope Bangkok Trained pastor. I think, the people in Perth would know more. Will leave it as that on my side.
Ciao
Monday, November 9, 2009
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Yes I think so too. Heard from friends when i was in Hope. He is one of the highest paid with the best incentives.
Cars and House provided plus salary for Him and most other cost covered.
Apparently from the eldership meeting notes i read in Thailand.
He wanted to buy a plane.. wow.. not sure if it is still on.
The church must be really rich. not sure how mnay people now. Prob 500 ?
Asiaman
I'm not familiar with how many people there are in Hope Perth. But he wants to buy a plane for what? Few million dollars at least?
They must be really big & rich then.
Supposedly a 4-5 seater one ... I think 200K at least. and not including airplane hanger fee... unless maybe he bought an air strip. and have a Private place to park it. But the cost of upkeep would be high...
I think he say it in his sermon, he wants to be the 1st Hope flying pastor. He went to take flying licence
oh my goodness, Hope perth got crazy pastor. So much money to burn. Weirdo!
Oh my !!!.. Wow.. Well.. I really hope the People in Perth church actually ask for the accounts, i used to be from Hope when i was overseas studying and was really sad when they split.
But our Church here have accounts put on the website to show the accounts, in fact the pastor tells us how much he earns PLUS the benefits.
I suppose accountability should not be only for members but also the Pastors.
I think that is what happen in Bangkok, the pastor's have too much power and no accountability. They choose people who will follow them blindly so they can do whatever they want and the followers would not question
Shock
It looks like a lot of people know about Pastor Stephen. We on our side have heard so much as well. Surely by now he will start to see his weaknesses & change right? No one is that blind.
And as any pastor will testify, everything they do is for God & His people. I'm sure he would have started out the same. If he says he really loves God's people then he should have the conviction to change.
If not, then based on what I've read & personally know from my leaders, he has a lot to answer to on judgment day.
I must say I feel sorry for the church though, I hope his actions don't misguide even more people!
That's why people say the 2 biggest downfall of men is women & money.
I really hope for his sake and the hope perth people that he starts to change soon.
Here's just a thought all the way across the country from Victoria. All the best Hope Perth!
This is a good read in regards to spiritual authority- http://frangipane.org/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=FaithHighway/Globals/DisplayTextMessage&PROJECTPATH=10000/1000/728&sermonid=textsermon_1249456626048&customerTypeLabel=Weekly&sermontitle=Spiritual%20Authority%20and%20the%20Things%20We%20Love,%20Part%201
Key on this link instead- http://bit.ly/2MIBIA
I was in Hope Perth, serving with Pastor Stephen. This is what I witnessed, with no intention to overwrite any comments made earlier.
When I came to Hope Perth, it was a size of 20+, unlike the big church I came from. The flow of service was not very different from the church I came from, but the atmosphere was stale, and the people were not exactly excited or warm, other than the one who was busying running the service, who also later became my CL. I went home negotiating with God, "Are You sure You want me to be here?" He gave an assurance through my heart, so I stayed on. Since the decision was sealed, I attended every event invitation including their prayer meet, yet there was still heart struggles to really feel belong with the church. The comforting factors that kept me going were God told me so and a good CL.
Shortly with the church, I was told that someone from Hope Bangkok will take over the leadership of the church, his name is none other, Ps Stephen. When he came to Perth, he wasted no time to meet the people in the church to get on the role. He shared on what God showed him that moved him to come to Perth immediately, without his family, without attending his father's wake (his father passed away just before he boarded the plane to Perth). He poured his sprirt on the urgency and heartbeat of God to see Hope Perth moves beyond where it is. He also setup dinner, cooked for the people with a sumptous spread, and presented with explanation to them (yes, i was there) the new structure of the church, and seek volunteers to be part of it. Were the people supportive and responsive? It's hard to teach old dog new trick was the answer I saw from their response. I don't know how he felt then, I would have been discouraged, what I saw was he continue to encourage, encourage, and encourage the people to move with him with God to grow the church.
Months later, his family came, his wife, son and daughter. We know he loves his family without a doubt. Asked those who don't think much of him, I think they will agree with me too. Imagined how he felt when he was challenged by God to leave his family in Bangkok, and came to Perth by himself. While he finally reunited with his family, it was a test to his finance. He had to work part-time cooking fish and chips to support his family, and his children education. It was on top of his roles of being a bible college student (a means stay in perth), a pastor, a shepherd, a father, and a husband. I remembered I broke down once in front of him when I felt very stressful coping with my studies and church ministry, he still comfort me while studying for his exams. What does this tell you about him?
Things that he did that ppl started leaving? Disputes happened, even out of church. Exactly what happened only the parties involved know (and God), so I am not here to defend or judge who is right and who is wrong. Just like any big corporations, the new leader will definitely bring in changes. For the good or bad. I let you decide as I shared with you what he did. He did a courageous change, removed the worship team, except less than handful. He had to play keyboard as well as preaching almost every week as a result. So why? People in worship team were in BGR, some stayed with their girlfriend. Though not in the same room, still they are under one roof by themselves. What sort of message is being portrayed to the non-believers? After Ps Stephen removing worship team, he did not condemned them, he went to individual to teach and counsel, he even stayed with those couples to restore them, and those who repented joined back to the worship team, but inevitable people were still hurt by this decision in the process. Could it be better manage? I can only say I could not have done better. Then he removed the leadership team, exciting time, another courageous move! Why? No unity in the team, yes I agreed that because I saw that as well. When disagreement happened, it will usually lead into arguement instead of clarification, I mean the spirit part. One pastor in Hope used to say,"It is important to recognised that we can disagree, but not have disagreeing spirit." and 1 Cor 12:12 says it all on the importance of unity in the kingdom of God especially leadership team. It was a long and hard decision for Ps Stephen, as he had to take over everything. One more change I had to mention is finance of the church, which created so much topic here. This change was not easy, he even requested prayer from me. A pastor who made bold changes to make things right in God, wrote me an email to ask for a prayer. Was it a struggle? Knowing him, I think so. He did it anyway. Why? He wanted to plant 130 churches in WA, it was his vision that he spoke about many times. As the church grew in numbers from 20+ to 100+, he started mission trips to further parts of WA along with his leadership team, so he requested to get a car for mission trip, but was rejected by the person who in charged of the finance. Frankly, I do not have the in-between details as to why the person rejected the purchase for the mission car, what I can see and testify is Ps Stephen's heartbeat to win many souls for God, and he has been consistent through the years I know him.
Recent controversies? One on not allowing the people in church to mix with member who left church. People who left for obvious reason not happy with church, yes mostly with Ps Stephen. Most people who left were in Hope Perth longer than him. As mentioned, he did many reforms, and changes are never quite well received by "old" people whether in church or secular world, if it challenged their comfort. Well I behaved the same way too, when my boss took away some of the things I like to do, and gave me new tasks that are cumbersome and painful. It is also natural for people, including myself, will air our grievances to people we are closed with. The question here is who would you choose? They chosen to air it with the people still with the church. What's wrong with that? I leave a verse to you, 1 Cor 8:1-13. The second one I am touching is again the finance portion on how he is highly paid, car, house, and plane. I guess in everyone's heart, a pastor should be poor? Why was King Solomon then so richly blessed by God? Can't the people in Hope Perth loved Ps Stephen so much that they wanted him to have a fat pocket? What is that to you? Is his house made of gold, have 10 rooms, 20 toilets? Is his car a porsche? Is his watch rolex? Or his shirt Armani? Did you see it? I saw, it was none above, but do you believe me? And did you wondered why he needed a plane? Did you know he is learning to fly? Before he took the course, he told me he wanted to reach out to northen side of WA such as Broome. He flew there for exploration trip a few times, and even bought me a calendar as souvenir. On our next meeting, he said he wanted to learn flying, as it would be more convenient and cheaper to rent a jet in future to bring his team there to evangelise. Bear in mind, for young chap to pick up flying is already not easy, he is a close to 50 years old man. The price of a private jet varies, 200K mentioned in the post is the top range, they are looking for an affordable price range of two new cars, that could pay off by installments like any other vehicle ownership. As mentioned right in the 1st post, the person learned about the plane through eldership meeting notes, this means Ps Stephen has accounted to the leaders about his plan. He did not buy it and then informed the leaders. What are you exactly upset with? because it's a plane and not bicycle? If bicycle can get to Broome as fast as a plane, I think Ps Stephen will have no hesitation to get a bicycle instead.
We all know a kingdom that is established on the wrong footing will not stand. Instead of using too much of our ears to hear who is right or who is wrong, use our eyes to see, let the size of the church (Hope Perth) speaks for Ps Stephen.
"Like sands in an hour glass, these are the days of our lives."
Witness, I’m sure you know reality is not always as things seem. More so if you have only heard one person’s (the pastor’s) take of events and if every other person cannot contribute their perspective to the discussion.
For every positive outcome, there are reasons. And for every negative outcome there are also reasons.
Do you personally know what the real reasons are? Or are you only faithfully repeating what you have been told?
PotongMadu
PotongMadu, the long reply have words like "I see" and "I saw" that shown my involvement. It was an account like the words what I witnessed.
What are things I heard and not see I mentioned in the long reply? points on controversies.
Good salary package and welfare, I have not heard or seen his pay cheque. I can only tell u what I see, which I have wrote in my reply. Why not you pay him a visit to see for yourself? I think he will welcome your visit. :) Though I wonder what's wrong for a pastor to be well-provided by the church? The civil servants are also well paid, the money also came from tax payers like us.
Buying a plane, I did not deny he is looking into getting a plane with a price range of two new cars. Some suggested his leaders objected, I do not have facts about this. If you need to address your doubt, the person who could give you the answer is Ps Wilson of Hope Brisbane, he is the overall leader of Hope Australia. You should be able to find his email through the website of Hope Brisbane.
I am a member of Hope Perth since 2001. Being part of this church has been (and still is) the best experience of my life. It is in this church that I came out of the internet addiction; my wounds from the broken relationships in the past were healed. I can now say good bye to the days when I lived a life focused on myself. I am now leading a new life in Christ. I wept before the Lord for my dishonesty and selfishness; I practiced giving and overcame my greed; I learned to say sorry and wave good bye to my ego and pride; I witnessed salvation after salvation, including my whole family; I used to be very bored with my job, but now I love so much serving in the work place. I enjoyed the team work with my colleagues; God changed me and God is doing a great work in my life and in yours right now. We once were sinners but now are free! Shall we - as believers share God in our lives through the Internet so that all who read this blog may know that God is true and He lives!
Not sure what your personal experience with God has anything to do with the topic of discussion. It's great that God has done great things in your life but there are issues that need to be dealt with in this pastor's life. He had done things which have hurt some people badly and perhaps this is the only way they get to voice out their pain and frustrations......
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