Tuesday, January 26, 2010

News in Bangkok

Here are some news from Hope Bangkok,

Apparently now Hope has send people to Hong Kong to start Hope Church. Well, it would be interesting to see 2 different Hope in Hong Kong.

Hope Hong Kong currently I believe decided to go independent, so it would be an interesting development happening in Hong Kong. I wonder if Hope Hong Kong remembered to register.

Opening Hope of Hong Kong

On Nov 27th Pastor EE Nipa Saeboon and team traveled to Hong Kong with the purpose of pioneering the church. As of now our family in Hong Kong already consists of more than 30 people. Pastor Nipa is humble and always willing to sacrifice for the kingdom of God, and she has now been entrusted by Pastor PN who has placed her in charge of Hope of Hong Kong Church. If you are passing through Hong Kong or moving to Hong Kong, you may find more details by contacting

News about PN ....

Pastor PN General Secretary of CFAM

Towards the end of Oct. 2009, Pastor Phisanunart Srithawong [PN] of Hope of Bangkok Church was chosen for the position of General Secretary of “Christ For Asia Movement” [CFAM]. CFAM an organization which many of the large churches in Asia have come together in, has a base in Manila Philippians.

Don’t forget to pray for Pastor PN’s good friend; he will be running for president in the upcoming May 2010 elections. Pastor Eddie is Pastor of the “Jesus is Lord Church” in Manila, Philippians. In March of 2009 Dr Cindy Jacobs Had a word of prophecy for Pastor Eddie and encouraged him. Dr. Cindy is supportive and teaches the concept of the seven Mt. to encourage believers to be a blessing to their society, politics being one of the seven.


Anonymous said...

that means 2 HOPE in HK?

Anonymous said...

Yes, confusing but true... i think the biggest problem is by HIM calling ourselves Hope, we will undoubtedly cause confusion. When PN decides to launch Churches overseas...

That saying, it took Bangkok almost 30 years to establish the international scene, I think it would still take the same time.

30 people would be I say the highest. But that remains to be seen if its regular 30 people.

The biggest handicap of Thai people is the language barrier as Thai is unique only to Thailand.

Anonymous said...

I do agree with what Anonymous January 27, 2010 6:50 AM said
Somehow, they might use the same method in recruiting int'l people in small churches to join their movement overseas or using mission at the doorstep method in training overseas people in Thailand to be sent back to their own countries for mission purpose (this method had been used since the first time. It can be fast or slow, hard to guess.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

How come I can't find any web site of CFAM?

Anonymous said...

I have tried to look too.. but not on website.. anyone can shed some light into CFAM ? I think its a Philppine organisation

Anonymous said...

Anonymous (January 31, 2010 7:05 PM), I think you're confused. It's only Hope Perth that's not good. A lot of other Hope churches are not too bad. And actually it's only Pastor Stephen that is the problem, the church is not.

Anonymous said...

Hay, I've just found out from a very senior pastor in Hope Aus that there's an issue with submission between pastors. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Anonymous said...

From what I know, only ONE pastor has submission problems. He's making all the other pastors in HIM look bad.

Anonymous said...

Then why hope focus so much on submission when the ps doesn't do it?

Anonymous said...

Is Hope Perth growing ? I heard they are doing very well ? Now more than 100 people .

Anonymous said...

According to Pastor Stephen, the church is growing. From 40+ to 100, over 6 years. That's not too bad isn't it? Average 10 a year.

All the Hope churches that I know of, all focus on submission. That is the only way to serve God. Submit to your leaders.

Anonymous said...

It's not how much the church has grown over the last 6 years, it's how stagnant they have been the last 3-4 years.

Hope Perth hit just under 100 about 3 years ago, & has stayed exactly the same. Reason? The number of new people equals the number of people who left. That alone is not a healthy sign already.

Anonymous said...

I suppose not everyone grows at the same pace and not every church grow at the same pace.

UL said...

Guys! It's about the teaching / the doctrine (something fundamental) that determines the culture, the value, the practice and the people. If they don't address that issue, I don't think the church will grow that far. My question is that what are they doing with the teaching, the doctrine? Have we learnt the lesson?

Anonymous said...

The funny thing is that Pastor Stephen alway say that there MUST be growth to show fruitfulness, thats what alway have to set numbers target. Then he himself? Alway apply to everyone else, except himself.

Anonymous said...

I heard that some of the leaders in HOPE says that disobey leaders = disobey God..... is that true? it makes me confused....

Anonymous said...

in other words, disagree the leaders = disagree God/disobey God?

Anonymous said...

Of course! According to Pastor Stephen, leaders are appointed by God, so never question the leader! If they ask you to do something, "just do it"! That is called submission & obedience! You will be blessed if you obey your leaders, & if you disagree or have second opinion, you most definitely have evil spirit in you. How dare you disagree with 'THE APPOINTED ONE'.

UL said...

"How DARE YOU ..." That's a good one. ;)

It all come back to something fundamental - the doctrine of God.

There are some cases where disobey leader not equals to disobey God. Unless THE leader claims himself as GOD (which we may call cult).

Anonymous said...

so, according to Pastor Stephen, disobey leaders = disobey God? disagree with leaders = disagree with God/disobey God?

but according to the doctrine of God, disobey leaders not equals to disobey God??

which means that .... ??

UL said...

I guess, it's up to how each individual pastors or movement understand submission. I guess, they need to get the doctrine right from the start.

The next question is that how the Hope movement understand the function of church.

Are we just called to build 1M churches by 2015? Why don't we encourage brothers and sisters in Christ to love Christ more and through that we can make impact to the city/ our friends?

No wonder Hope is mission driven church ... Where's love? Where's acceptance? Where's understanding?

Anonymous said...

What will happen if an unqualified pastor leading the church?

I believe pastor is God choosen as well as he/she must be qualified to lead the church. His/Her work must be proven.

I was a core team leader in Hope Australia (Not Perth!). I could still remember Ps M told all the core team leaders if the leaders come late to the church, God will not bless us and the church. As the core team leaders, we must come to church on time. Ps M shared all these with scripture backed up.

My question is that how could our blessing relate our behaviour? Isn't it we are saved by grace and not by work? Why did Ps M frame the passage/scripture into what he wanted to say?

Anonymous said...

"There are some cases where disobey leader not equals to disobey God. Unless THE leader claims himself as GOD (which we may call cult)."

So what does this mean for Pastor Stephen? Interesting.

I also agree with UL, it's all about building the NUMBER of churches, not about the people. Sometimes I feel it's just all a 'competition', they overwork their leaders just to reach their 'target'.

Conclusion: There is something fundamentally wrong with Hope Teaching.

Anonymous said...

Mixing thai Culture and godly principle

I think that is the biggest problem with the old Hope movement. thai culture believes in Obedience and absolutely obedience to authority.
Respect and submission is a big key in the culture.

Ps Kreingsak unforuntely when he went back to Thailand was never properly mentored and do not actually account to anyone.

This culture of total submission regardless of life example but merely based on title is a prevelant problem.

But its really up to individual to make a stand and to realise what is blibical and what is not.


Anonymous said...

The problem is when an individual tries to make a stand in Hope Perth. It doesn't happen!
You'll be persecuted & called an evil spirit. It makes people to scared to speak out.

Anonymous said...

Really Crazy!! They will bear what they did!

Anonymous said...

All the best, guys! I'm out of Hope and now servicing in another church. There are a lot of things that I need to un-learn and re-learn again. I'm glad that God brings me out so that I can grow further. For those who have conviction to remain in Hope, I pray for the HS to give you success whatever you involve.

Whatever RIGHT or WRONG, I believe one day God will bring all these in conclusion. Keep up all the good work. Happy CNY!

Anonymous said...

You are blessed indeed to be out of Hope! Congrats!

Anonymous said...

i know ... i know ...
for me it's a blessing ...

i guess different people have different way of seeing it ... maybe some may feel it's a blessing to serve in Hope as they are given more opportunity.

Anonymous said...

there are indeed many things we need to unlearn. Alot of concept was very extreme and to the point that is very unhealthy.

Eg 1 million churches by 2015. And because of this unrealistic goal, we had send so many people who were spiritually not ready to handle church planting to the point that many actually burned out.

UL said...

I think we are called to love God and love the people. Through the love of Christ, we impact the city, our family and friends.

Can you show me which part of the bible tells us to plant 1M churches? Is this vision from God or from man? or both 50% Man and 50% God?

What if we can't fulfill 1M churches goal by 2015, what would that tell us? Has HOPE fail his mission? or perhaps God makes mistake? or perhaps men make mistake?

Anonymous said...

I also had a problem with that 1m churches vision! I think the funniest thing was the vision that Pastor Stephen had. He started off with 130 churches, & kept preaching that he wants to see 130 churches by 2015. And all of a sudden after a year, it halved & became 77. SO my theory is, if it keeps halving every year, it would make our job so much eaiser. By 2015, we would definitely reach our goal of ONE!

UL said...

Can you all allow me to say that HOPE church is driven by number (ie. number of churches in the world, number of total attendance, stat.)?

I don't think other movements / church boasting about all these (NUMBER) and aiming to conquor the world by having certain number of churches in the world.

There's nothing wrong for impacting the world. But using the numerical goal as a goal for the movement is theological error.

I have spoken to some of the HOPE center coordinators, they are struggling with their own church. The SAME question that I have heard many times - Why the church is not growing? I think what they are focusing is GOOD but it's not what God calls us as Christian.

Anyway, I will leave all these to Ps Simon to settle that. Hope they will address the foundamental issue in HOPE.

Anonymous said...

I think the problem is because we have this best of the best which sort of pit one church against another.

So, when a pastor throw up a big number like 130 or more. It makes the church look good.

Sometimes even though the church is far from ready to handle the main church we are already trying to plant church all over.

And when you don't succeed just keep changing plans. the truth is the numbers and strategy was never realistic in the first place hence the constant changing of plans.

The worst thing is that when you question their unrealistic or impractical approach, you will hear things like " I am a leader and I should know better."

Simply put leader is never wrong.

UL said...

I know ... I know ...

I just went to a well known mission organization last night (a well known non-HOPE mission organization). I'm so glad to see different churches coming together to impact a nation. That mission organization partners with non-profit organizations and governments to do something great in the nation such as building houses, building schools, universities and in the midst of all these intereactions the Gospel of Christ is being shared.

Hay guys, do you know there are 1.78 people die per second in the world? I wonder what's the % of those who die for that second knows about God or (end up in the hell). So what should HOPE focus?

I hope "HOPE" can see beyond the NUMBER - It's not about how many churches that HOPE have planted. It's not about the church attendance (or number of attending care group, prayer meeting or leadership training). It's all about the PEOPLE and the LOST.

Grace said...

Bible says that all of us are the Lost Sheep. That means leaders too.
So leaders are never 100% correct.
As followers we have to be careful of what leaders tell us to do. Follow God, not men!

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Technology Freak said...

If it takes 30 years for PN's Hope Church to achieve the International Scene, i think it might take lesser this time, considering the Post-Technological Booming Era we are in.
Don't underestimate PN, in terms of strategic accomplishments, this guy ROCKS!

Anonymous said...

I must admit PN is quite a charismatic person. But actually the teaching style is very 90s. Once u hear it often enough, there is nothing that you have not heard. I think because we are so entomb in our movement we become myophic and as the churches around improve we have acutally stopped.

Regardless of the technology, its the disciples that he can train that will make a difference.

I heard his teaching, its good but does not make it stand up and say Wow...

In my opinion, I dont see him as a pastor or man of God. Just a good speaker
Lets wait and see....

UL said...

Let's wait and see. Let the JUDGE be the JUDGE. The time and the fruit will tell the truth!

Booster said...

Bah! Pastor PN, Pastor Stephen etc. all the same! Think too highly of themselves that's why they fall.

Adultery, Greed of money, all the same! Pride blocks them from seeing the truth.

It's a sad era for Hope church. Sad sad.

At least the truth is out, now just wait & see how many blind sheep there are.

Anonymous said...

you guys wasted so much time criticizing HOPE and the people of God. Looks like most of the time you guys spend is only criticizing and judge one another. Why not find something more encouraging things to do. Also watch out whatever come out from your tongue(fingers). You know that God can read!

Anonymous said...

haha, we are discussing the truth.. nth hide ~~

SDL said...

To the anonymous who typed "you guys wasted so much time criticizing HOPE and the people of God. Looks like most of the time you guys spend is only criticizing and judge one another. Why not find something more encouraging things to do. Also watch out whatever come out from your tongue(fingers). You know that God can read!"

Are you a new believer or something?

When you type this, isn't that also criticizing? :P What's judge? What's criticize? Did we say PN and gang go to hell or something? WE DID NOT! Only God is the one who can judge. As Christians, we musn't follow leaders blindly. We must not be blind sheep. We are discussing the truths and facts that can help us make more concrete decisions in our Christian walk.

SDL said...

To the anonymous who typed "you guys wasted so much time criticizing HOPE and the people of God. Looks like most of the time you guys spend is only criticizing and judge one another. Why not find something more encouraging things to do. Also watch out whatever come out from your tongue(fingers). You know that God can read!"

Are you a new believer or something?

When you type this, isn't that also criticizing? :P
What's judge?
What's criticize?
Did we say PN and gang going to hell or heaven? WE DID NOT! Only God is the one who can ultimately judge. As Christians, we musn't follow leaders blindly. We must not be blind sheep. We are discussing the truths and facts that can help us make more concrete decisions in our Christian walk.

Anonymous said...

Yes i agree. There are many blind sheep that left Hope with bitterness, worst of all, when they leave hope, they leave God too...ISN'T THIS WASTING MORE TIME?

Hope that when people read these comments, they know the truth and figure for themselves how to REALLY lead a Christian life that is full of God Grace instead of RULES set by MEN.

UL said...

I've managed to find out IF in Thailand no longer partnering with HIM. One of the reasons is that Ps Simon sheep stealing people in IF. I have some evidences in my saying.

My question to you all:

Let's don't talk about who right or who wrong ...

- Do you really know what's happening in HOPE? or You just blindly follow your leaders?
- How do you know your Ps Simon is doing the right thing? or you are just following the crowd.

Need Confirmation said...

Dear all,

I've just recently joined Hope Perth, and after that I heard from a friend about this website. I've spent the last 2 days reading through everything. And I have a question for whoever can answer me.

I've been a Christian for awhile & now wants to settle in a good church in Perth. But after reading all this, I'm starting to have doubts about Hope Perth. The people are very friendly, & very nice, but my main thing is I want a church where the Pastor/leaders uphold certain moral values. It seems as if though this might be a problem in Hope Perth.

I don't know much about the whole Hope movement & what has been going on. But I just want to make sure that Hope Perth is ok. Can someone please tell me if the things accused are still happening or has things change? Even though I'm in church but I'm not in leadership so I don't know about what happens behind the scenes. Can anyone with insight please advise me?

Thank you.

UL said...

I can only say :- Ask your Holy Spirit.

Different churches have their reasons existing on earth. Eg. Old people may not necessary like the HOPE way of P&W. In my personal opinion (subjective opinion), HOPE's student ministries are very good. But again, i could be wrong. You need to listen your inner voice and pray that God will speak to you.

By the way, why don't you shop around, joining different churches, for the next 2-3 weeks and pray and trust God will show you the way.

Samaritan said...

Need Confirmation,
If you need recommendations on good churches in Perth that will care for you then I am happy to help.

UL said...

Hope you all can find a place to serve God.

I believe a good church should provide a good environment to grow. Whether HOPE can provide the ground, you need to ask God.

Anonymous said...

Hi need confirmation,

The issue menionted in the blog are correct about the Hope movement under PN. As for the Hope perth issue, we just have to be more discerning.

Of course, no church is perfect.Whatever they have changed its really only time will tell.

Why dont you pray and ask God

Need confirmation said...

Thank you for all your advice. I have spoken to others about it as well. I think I'm quite convinced that things may not appear to be what they seem on the surface with Hope Perth.

I visited one church that I really like. But I want to expose to more churches before making my decision. Samaritan, please list a few good churches for me to visit?

UL, it's not just the old people who don't like Hope's P&W. I must say compare to where I come from before, Hope Perth's P&W is really bad. I don't know about other Hope church, never been there before. Maybe they are all new musicians, but technic all cannot make it. Singers can't sing, musicians can't play. Thank God, God is still good.

Sermons also very dragging & not relevant most of the time. No idea what the Pastor is talking about most of the time. The only good thing is the people are welcoming. But I think I want to look for somewhere where I can actually learn more about God & not just about His people.

The church I visited was very vibrant, very interesting sermon, i felt i finally learnt something since I come to Perth. The worship team were all very professional as well. Atmosphere was very encouraging, presence of God super strong. People very nice too.

I still want to 'shop' around like what UL say. So I welcome all suggestions or recommendations!

Thank you.

Friend Of God said...

Let me help!

In alphabetical order, churches that I know of that are really good!

* Aflame Community Church - Perth
* Belmont City Assembly of God - Belmont
* Bullcreek Church of Christ - Willeton
* Christian City Church Beachway - Osborne Park
* Christian City Church Hepburn Heights - Padbury
* Christian City Church Joondalup - Joondalup
* Christian City Church Rockingham - Rockingham
* Cornerstone Church - Joondalup
* Faith Community Church - Willetton
* Freedom Christian Centre - Bibra Lake
* Full Gospel Assembly Perth - Bentley
* Hills Christian Faith Centre - Kalamunda
* Indonesian Family Church Inc - Perth
* Joondalup City Church - Joondalup
* Lake Joondalup Baptist Church - Joondalup
* Lakelands Christian Centre AOG - Yangebup
* Lakes Christian Life Centre Wangara
* Melville City Church Myaree
* Metro Church - Perth
* Perth Chinese Christian Church - Doubleview
* Perth Christian Life Centre - Canning Vale
* Perth Indonesian Church - Northbridge
* Riverton Baptist Church - Shelley
* Riverview Church - Burswood
* Southcity Church - Melville
* Sunset Coast CLC - Joondalup
* Swan City Church - Middle Swan
* Victory Life Church - Osborne Park
* Warwick Church of Christ - Warwick
* Whitfords Church of Christ - Mullaloo
* Zion Family Church - Rivervale
* Zion Fellowship - Joondalup
* Zion Praise Harvest - Bentley

Anonymous said...

Churches in Perth worth considering, depending on what type of congregation you prefer. Different churches have different culture.

Riverview Church and Victory Life are one of the biggest Australian Churches in Perth predominantly Caucasian base.

There are some church with a more varied mixture like - Perth Christian Life Centre, South City Church

Then there are those that are more asian or cultural based like - Zion, FGA, FCC

It really depends on which church demographic you feel comfortable in

UL said...

Hi all,

My personal tips on how to find a church:
- Listen to the Holy Spirit
- Pray
- Word of God (Spending time to read His word)
- Try and find out the doctrines and the church practices (Eg. The way how they run their ministries, leadership, church culture)
- Speak to the pastor/everyone to get to know the people

(NOTE: See?! I admit Hope's way of welcoming people is very good. But I guess at the end of the day you need to find a place where you can grow. Try and look for something that you can feel the presence of God (Please God but not man). Bear in mind that the MAIN ISSUE with Hope is something that fundamental was corrupted at the first place. If they don't do anything about it, similar issue will happen in the future)

Samaritan said...

Hello again Need Confirmation,
Friend of God has provided a really good list of churches. And Anonymous' comments after that are also helpful. There should be a church that is right for you in that list. God bless!